The long DIVA thread

[tommyzai]

.

[djanthonyw]

You can make bass, leads, pads, ect... with just about any synth. Some synths do not have built in arps though. As far as I know Diva does not. Diva is supposed to be an analog emulation so that is what will set it apart from the other u-he projects, simplicity with the character of analog synths.

[tommyzai]

You can make bass, leads, pads, ect... with just about any synth. Some synths do not have built in arps though. As far as I know Diva does not. Diva is supposed to be an analog emulation so that is what will set it apart from the other u-he projects, simplicity with the character of analog synths.

Thank you! Is it fair to assume that Diva will have a more fat, lush analogish sound than Zebra2, ACE, or FilterscapeVA? ACE is often considered to have an analog kind of sound. I wonder what will be the sonic difference between ACE and Diva. I know they are/will be great sounding plugins and have their own flavor, but if they both have an analog sound, which end of the analog spectrum will they respectively occupy?

[Howard]

What sound will Diva be able to produce better than any other U-he Synth?

Classic analogue synth sounds from Minimoog and Jupiter/Juno to MS20 and TB303 - that kind of range.

If you had the whole suite of U-he synths, which many of you have (especially Urs), which one would you first think of going to if you needed

That's a tough question. They're all so flexible that I couldn't pick a single one per job, so here's the order in which I *might* choose (depending on the character of the song):

Bass - Zebra, DIVA or ACE
Strings/Pad - DIVA or Zebra
Lead - ACE, Zebra or DIVA
Arps - Zebra (the only one with an arpeggiator!)

[tommyzai]

Howard,
Thanks a million! That's the kind of answer I was hoping for. Everyone will have their opinion about which one is the "go to" synth for bass, etc, but I am just curious what the general consensus is.

[arbee]

This answer by Howard makes me want to try DIVA even more !!

[musikmachine]

This answer by Howard makes me want to try DIVA even more !!

Same! Will there be a crossgrade a la Zebra; from the demos so far it sounds like a synth that could put a few others into retirement.

[Kalee]

Hi,

Warning I'm maybe not best qualified to give answer to this, might even miss the point abit . But here is what I think.

Categorizing what is the best sound to things such as pads, basses, leads and so, may be "wrong" way to look at sound of a synthesizer. If I would answer that, I would say zebra zebra zebra zebra, and might even add space ships, drums, organs and electric piano sounds to list, even though I'm not good enough synth programmer to do all this stuff yet.

1 thing how Zebra differs from others is its tweakability, even with minimalistic changes, such as the waveform, type of envelope, great variety of different sounding filters, maybe that is not counting as minimalistic anymore. Other thing would be the amazing modulation possibilities. Some of this stuff is something I didn't understand to even think about before I already owned it. I get fascinated by playing with Zebras oscillator alone.

Zebra is not sonically too much different from the freeware synths that I recently deleted, if I just make Zebra to sound like them. It doesn't work the other way around. This feels like the most versatile synth, and it is even getting an update with new things. I'm getting my mind blown frequently as I learn what all this can do.

I heared sound clip from Diva here, and it had this high pitched sound in it that is not super audible. That is one thing I recognize analog synthesizer sound from. Maybe not every analog synthesizer makes this type of sound, but if you record 2 real analog synth sounds (with that type of high pitch tone there) and Diva, give the clips to me and ask which clip is the recording of a software synthesizer, I would have to guess the answer. Maybe that is one part of Divas speciality.

Bazille seems far more useful than hardware counterparts of this cable madness type of synthesizers. You can save patches and you can connect more than 1 cable to a jack socket. I don't know how these work, only ended up patching my self up with it .

Other than that, good sounding synth is a good sounding synth .

[PeteJames]

I thought you were working on the Berlin Modular. I'm getting confused by all of these synths - zebra, ace, berlin and now diva? Would be great to have a synth where almost every parameter could be step modulated but without annoying routing cables.

Is there an oberheim filter with this one? I'd love it to do OBX sounds.

[xh3rv]

I'm just trying to get a sense of what other users consider the specialty of each of these synths to be.

I think it's really about the methods of synthesis. I think you can paint anything with watercolors, or oil-based paints, or woodblock inks (I actually think you can paint different colors with monochromatics like the Asian masters, but that's another story …), and while they will all look different, it turns out they are still all in some sense paintings.

ZEBRA
Zebra is the workstation synth where the variety of modules and routing flexibility, in summation, create a highly dynamic synthesis environment.

There's a modulation->parameter logic that's consistent across modulation sources and parameters, and basically everything can be modulated with a robust set of modulation sources - envelopes, LFOs, various MIDI data, MSEGs, MMaps, MMixers. In Zebra you can turn the wheel into a Wah-Wah out of an EQ module, or turn a patch from a pluck into a pad based on velocity, or jam on XY pads the way you would a 303 filter. I would say, in a sense, the modulation options exceed imagination.

It has a large number of methods for synthesis. A brilliant implementation of a wavetable module that, via structure, is also additive and in a sense granular. It's grains of Zebra stuff rather than audio and again via structure this allows for powerful modulations of OSC FX or various other parameters. FM modules and comb filters are likewise very flexibly implemented. Subtractive synthesis can be as much about the filters as the filter input, and there's a great range of options here too - several LP filters, BP/HP/EQ, AP, formants, bitcrush, and finally the XMF uberfilter module which cooks your bacon and makes your coffee too.

It might take a little while to grasp the semi-modular grid, but all these synthesis and modulation options exponentiate on it. It's pretty amazing.

ACE
In contrast to the diversity of synthetic options in Zebra, ACE offers a precedent-setting implementation of a modular VA synth that allows for a novel technique: audio-rate modulation over cables. There are vast ranges of VA sounds that can arise from these modulations.

Each of the four oscillators have some quirks in implementation leading to a range of asterisks on a feature list you'd want to have for a VA synth - S&H, phase modulation, sub-oscillator output, sync, cross-modulation, step-sequencing, a sort of pre-wavetable, PWM, FM, waveshaping, and I'm sure more not coming to mind. The filters offer a really nice balance of drive and resonance that lets them tune inbetween clean and dirty and self-oscillating.

While Zebra can be pretty top-down - you tend to program one module at a time, and the flow of audio is pretty direct - ACE is more of an integrated whole, and I think the magic happens on a really raw, timbral level. Tweaking a knob in ACE can result in strange, beatuiful things coming out of something else down the line of cabling. It's like, if Zebra modules hold hands, ACE modules do Vulcan mind melding. It may not be the case that every ACE patch needs the computationally intensive precision of compounding audio-rate modulations, but having that guarantee really changes things.

DIVA
It's not actually here yet, but from what has been said - all the complexity has been pushed into the modules themselves, which now model non-linear behaviors of classic analog hardware, especially notable in the filters but also the oscillators and envelopes. The maths here are pretty interesting, and I think there's something a little bit more than just a metaphor or analogy to say it reminds me of how much prettier a raycasted 3d model of a marble statue is when accounting for sub-surface scattering of light.

To continue the Vulcan analogy, this is maybe the Pon Farr period of rabid sexuality that is suggested between Spock and Kirstie Allie in Star Trek III, and that deleted scenes from Star Trek IV of Kirstie Allie having Spock-babies make more than suggestive.

I think it will sound very nice too!

[VitaminD]

To continue the Vulcan analogy, this is maybe the Pon Farr period of rabid sexuality that is suggested between Spock and Kirstie Allie in Star Trek III, and that deleted scenes from Star Trek IV of Kirstie Allie having Spock-babies make more than suggestive.

well.. ahh.. err... maybe I misse-wait no no.. hmmm.. not sure what to make of this.


I will say you should never box a synth into being a lead-only or bass-only go to only. No roles based on synthesizer. Or even using leads as leads and bass patches as bass patches.. go crazy.


I'm pretty sure ACE will be a part of the Berlin Modular though which it seems to be a larger grand plan for later on.

We've been talking about DIVA for well over a year and it is only now coming close to being reality. DIVA is a lot more simplistic than a mega modular so I think that will take time.

[pdxindy]

[Urs]

I thought you were working on the Berlin Modular. I'm getting confused by all of these synths - zebra, ace, berlin and now diva? Would be great to have a synth where almost every parameter could be step modulated but without annoying routing cables.

Is there an oberheim filter with this one? I'd love it to do OBX sounds.

I hear you. You're absolutely right, we need to clear things up. I'll ask Howie to put some kind of product matrix in place.

To give a short answer: Berlin Modular is an extremely ambituous project. Bazille is just a precursor to (and part of) it, and so is ACE. Diva on the other hand is a pure demonstration of technology, that also happens to emulate various pieces of synth history in a very beautiful (yet demanding) way. The tech used in Diva is the future of virtual analogue synthesis and the foundation of large parts of Berlin Modular.

We don't have any Oberheim synths yet (part from two Matrix1000s) - allthough we have modelled a similar filter, we can't verify nor claom that it's anywhere close to OB-X. We might ge getting an OB-Xa soon though.

[Urs]

Side note: The beta team has received a first glimpse of Diva, and our whiteboard is filling with bug reports, niggles and clarification requests. I'm sure we'll have a public beta fairly soon

[musikmachine]

Urs, you never answer any question i ask.