Diva vs Strobe (FXpansion)

[4damind]

Howard has btw. persuaded me that we'll do voice stacking in Diva, but only between 1 till 4 voices. This, and a proper Unison mode.

Urs

A combination of Unison and voice stacking, yes this a good idea. This is the same thing how it works with FXpansion. Some sounds cannot be recreated without Unison and with Unison sometimes a single oscillator can be enough to create a great big pad (see FXpansion Strobe)

[SWAN808]

Diva has a lot more character than Strobe for me. Strobe is a good analogue model but the end result felt a bit vanilla in terms of character...

[himalaya]

Diva has a lot more character than Strobe for me. Strobe is a good analogue model but the end result felt a bit vanilla in terms of character...

DIVA does ooze gorgeousness.

A few observations as to the character as arrived at by detuning.

Strobe's one oscillator doesn't help, when compared to DIVA's three. There is a trick to get another oscillator out of Strobe but it has to be set at another pitch than the main oscillator. I think a better comparison would be Cypher, which has three oscillators and a richer feature set which allows for more animated sounds, akin to those in DIVA. Cypher makes it easier than Strobe to simulate that 'Trimmers' page in DIVA, which I think is absolutely genius. This is the cream factory.

To get that dynamic detuning in Cypher you'd need to go to the modulation system and use a random modifier as well as one LFO. With careful set up this will animate the sound in a similar way as the (more complex in result) trimmers in DIVA. So this is crucial in getting Cypher to have similar lush character as DIVA. The main difference as far as I can see is in the key tracking in both synths. So if I set Cypher to sound as mellow as DIVA's default patch in the higher registers, the lower registers will differ, and the reverse is true as well. This is based on DIVA's Moog stuff, but once the other modeled bits are used, it's a whole other (amazing) world.

BTW, when you get Cypher up, make sure you have the real-time oversampling rate set to 2x or better 4x.

[TechnoSlave]

Without discounting any of the above, what struck me about the DCAM synths was how "hot" the output levels are for all the factory presets. This seems to enhance the "analog" quality of the sounds independently of the underlying technology. Conversely with Alchemy for example there are many great factory presets that have extremely low levels at the output and you only get a unity gain as an effect.

[himalaya]

That's true.
The culprit in most cases is the Filter Drive knob.
Notice that even the initialised patch, Filter Drive is pumping signal to the filter. The result is a more in your face sound, which I gather FXpansion devs like, and it is great for a lot of sounds, basses and in your face chords, arps, etc, especially in the current climate of 'full on' dance music.

To get a smoother sound you need to reduce the filter drive knob to about -6db and compensate for the level drop with the main AMP level (the AMP level section has two volume settings, and you want the one on the far right).

The other thing is, DCAM needs to be used with higher oversampling rates, just like DIVA, but it comes pre-set with no oversampling, and most people do not realise that even the setting of 2x drastically improves the sound. I've settled at 4x for real time playback and usually render at 8x.

[himalaya]

Conversely with Alchemy for example there are many great factory presets that have extremely low levels at the output and you only get a unity gain as an effect.

With Alchemy the sound design guidelines state that the preset should not exceed -2db when a six note chord is played at FULL velocity (across the whole range of the keyboard). This is what makes Alchemy patches seem lower in output.

[Urs]

Conversely with Alchemy for example there are many great factory presets that have extremely low levels at the output and you only get a unity gain as an effect.

With Alchemy the sound design guidelines state that the preset should not exceed -2db when a six note chord is played at FULL velocity (across the whole range of the keyboard). This is what makes Alchemy patches seem lower in output.

That's a good law, maybe a tad too cautious.

We basically tell sound designers to "not clip in normal use" and keep within the range of a given set of presets that we seed.

I think one shouldn't make it too complicated, but we spend a hell of a lot of time normalising volumes before uploading a final version. We couldn't do that for TyrellN6 and got quite a few complaints.

[himalaya]

I think Alchemy is a special case though. One part which can catch people unawares in the Remix Pads. When swept through, you can inadvertently uncover sharp peaks which could clip the output, so extra care has to be taken, which also means that the level of each remix pad needs to be set individually.


By the way, Urs, I've been going through all those panels in DIVA, and some of the sonics are amazing and surprising all at the same time. DIVA is like a labyrinth, change the filter, get a new sound, change the oscillator, get a new sound, so many combinations to explore! How do I make up my mind which filter or oscillator to stick with? They all sound fabulous.

[Urs]

Thanks mate

[C.Bennett]

With all these Black Friday sales on the go I was seriously considering re-purchasing Synth Squad. I used to own it but I only used it a handful of times. I remember the sound from Strobe was very good, if a little flat. I thought the current deal price was good but then I started to seriously spend a bit of time with Diva and it just blows the whole Synth Squad stuff away. The interface is also much nicer and fun to use. I don't know, the Synth Squad stuff just looks ugly imho.

I've shelved my plans to re-purchase Synth Squad and purchased Diva last night instead - delighted to see the money go straight to Urs to support the development of Diva. There's no factory presets at the moment but the U-he community is so amazing that there's already loads of patches being shared by some v-talented sound designers and users. Urs was even so kind as to send me through a patch used in one of his sound demos so far.

The sound from Diva is sublime.

[djsubject]

Divas Screaming filter's are a testament to what can actually be done in plugin land!

Subz

[djsubject]

The sound from Diva is sublime.

by far the best single word to describe divas sound!

"sublime"

[4damind]

I think Synth Squad is a bit a one trick pony. Strobe sounds good for bass sounds and with stacking+Unison it's also usable for pads. But it's IMO not the best synth for pads. Cypher is a bit under the radar and the same with Amber. I have not idea why but it seems people only using/preferring Strobe.

The interesting thing is that Synth Squad is very cheap this days (must be 63€ with the AM15 voucher at audiomidi). For such a small price it could be interesting also when using only Strobe.

Diva is missing this time IMO some important things: Unison and stacking. Yes, it will be implemented soon but this time it's not. So it's a bit hoping that Urs will implement such stuff the next time and hopefully we must not wait till summer 2012

[djanthonyw]

My vote goes to Diva, will be purchasing it soon.

[pandashake]

The problem with the whole DCAM stuff for me are the GUIs. They're just too small. This is really destroying them for me.

@pandashake
Could you post some examples of Juno'ish sounds from Strobe?
I've never considered Strobe to be a candidate for those kind of sounds.

I'll do you one better and give you some start-up patches for keys/pads that you can play around with yourself. To fake the chorus, try increasing the "Stack" control a bit OR throw TAL's Chorus-60 behind it with a 50/50 mix and Type II engaged.

It's been quite a while since I played with a Juno 60, but I based most of these off the soundclips from synthmania.com/juno-60.htm Anyway, there's nine patches here to get you started.

http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=one&id=1623