u-he

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:52 am

FrantzM wrote:It's not just the hardware. I have a Waldorf Q which I am guessing has the same or more DSP power that the Minimax has and its analog filter emulations are totally unconvincing. There is some serious DSP wizardy going on in the Minimax even without zero-feedback yadda yadda. There is probably an interesting story behind Creamware's bankruptcy given how far ahead they were in the analog DSP arms race.

That's highly subjective. I love how the Q sounds. You have to approach it from the perspective that Q does not model any existing analog synth, it's a powerhouse of its own.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:59 am

FrantzM wrote:I wonder what kind of black DSP magic Creamware / SonicCore used to make the Minimax.

Do you think the components of the Minimax are more accurately modeled after a Minimoog than Diva's?

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:22 pm

Urs wrote:
FrantzM wrote:I wonder what kind of black DSP magic Creamware / SonicCore used to make the Minimax.
Do you think the components of the Minimax are more accurately modeled after a Minimoog than Diva's?

No they are not! I have both of them and while i like Minimax over every single VST moog-like i tried (apart from uhe stuff) i honestly think that Diva does it better. In lack of finding proper word i would like to say that vstis are 50% there, Minimax is 75% there while Diva is 90% there. Sorry for crappy analogy.

(p.s. there is some kind of supposedly ground breaking announcement over at SonicCore which will start tomorrow - maybe they finally dig their heads from their asses so they will offer affordable dsp solution for normal people - thus more people will have access to lovely Minimax and other nice goodies )

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:30 pm

kmonkey wrote:(p.s. there is some kind of supposedly ground breaking announcement over at SonicCore which will start tomorrow - maybe they finally dig their heads from their asses so they will offer affordable dsp solution for normal people - thus more people will have access to lovely Minimax and other nice goodies )

That's what I've been hoping that for the last ten years. I am sure it will be Volksampler II or something equally futile. Don't underestimate how deep in their bottoms they are. They might even be lost in there.

/C

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:26 pm

Urs wrote: Do you think the components of the Minimax are more accurately modeled after a Minimoog than Diva's?

I think Diva is amazing and I started getting sounds out of it that made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up (just before my CPU melted

). With all of the different oscillators, filters, and modulation settings, you can get a million sounds from Diva that you cannot get on a Minimax.

However, there is a brightness and clarity to Diva that sounds modern to me. Whereas Minimax has more of a vintage sound that fools my mind's ear into thinking it is real analog. But I don't have a real Minimoog to compare them to so I cannot really say much about the accuracy of the modeling.

The thing that impresses me about Minimax was they did it in 2006 but couldn't capitalize on it. Creamware probably made a lot of bad business decisions.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:31 pm

FrantzM wrote:
Urs wrote:
The thing that impresses me about Minimax was they did it in 2006 b

Yes and it still hold pretty ok even today. You are right they did some terrible business decisions just ad the new soniccore is doing. I hope they will improve for the sake of great platform.

I hope that we'll see something interesting tomorrow not just another "pay for a driver and loose some of older working functions"..

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:56 pm

FrantzM wrote:However, there is a brightness and clarity to Diva that sounds modern to me. Whereas Minimax has more of a vintage sound that fools my mind's ear into thinking it is real analog.

Well, that's what we've always said. In direct comparison, Diva often has a brighter top end. Which I found preferrable. We are contemplating to add a more vintage sound ina future update, once we get time and space to work on this a bit further.

It seems furthermore that the Minimoog we have for reference is excessively open and mellow sounding, judging from emulations such as the Minimax and from audio demos. Of course no Mini sounds like any other, but this one seems to be on an extreme end.

electro · Post by **electro** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:00 pm

FrantzM wrote:The thing that impresses me about Minimax was they did it in 2006 but couldn't capitalize on it. Creamware probably made a lot of bad business decisions.

Extremely bad business decisions. I always wanted to run the Creamware Mini and Prophet5 as easy as UAD VSTs. Now how far off is the U-he Model D?

Urs wrote: Do you think the components of the Minimax are more accurately modeled after a Minimoog than Diva's?

Minimax was probably modeled a close as possible to the Model D they had on hand.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:08 pm

electro wrote:how far off is the U-he Model D?

I'm leaving for a month of vacation in a week. When I'm back we'll be pondering over this. Depends on how the bug fixes pan out, how much time we have and how our schedule fills up in general.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:15 pm

Urs wrote: It seems furthermore that the Minimoog we have for reference is excessively open and mellow sounding

I've been wondering about this. I have used 3 different mini's over the years. One was dark and kind of smeared sounding, the other two were very open and bright. The Dark one was best sounding smooth lead synth I've ever heard. But, it didn't do anything else very well because it just kind of crapped out with any high emphasis or contour.

From memory, I actually think DIVA is close to the two bright ones. It sounds nothing like the dark one. I wish I still had access to them so I could do the compare for real instead of just from memory.

I like the brighter sound, fwiw.

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:17 pm

Well-deserved vacation Urs. Take that time with your wife and just enjoy some good R & R. You've provided us with new toys to enjoy in the meantime

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:20 pm

grandmasterbird wrote: Or you could use in 'draft' setting then bounce audio down in best quality mode

I did try freezing a track but even that took minutes on my ancient Windows XP computer. I will undoubtedly upgrade my PC and get Diva at some point but right now I want to make music with what I have.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:28 pm

Urs wrote:In direct comparison, Diva often has a brighter top end. Which I found preferrable. We are contemplating to add a more vintage sound ina future update, once we get time and space to work on this a bit further.

Having a vintage mode would be great. There are times when I want that vintage sound where the frequency range is limited but everything gels together in a smooth, musical way. Other times I want something brighter, modern and exciting. It depends on my mood.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:35 pm

EvilDragon wrote: That's highly subjective. I love how the Q sounds. You have to approach it from the perspective that Q does not model any existing analog synth, it's a powerhouse of its own.

Well, I love the layout of the Q. With knobs for every essential feature it was a pleasure to tweak. Too bad all of my endless rotary encoders are broken now...

But I really don't think the Q sounds analog like a Minimoog or Prophet. No doubt many people love the sound but I always got frustrated trying to get an analog sounding bass out of it.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:10 pm

I guess that's why Waldorf made Q+, then

u-he

KVR Audio

Creamware Minimax vs Diva