Diva's Modifications system

[Urs]

hello howard, im sorry for being so stupid but i have no idea how to do add a square wave LFO to an inverted lagged version of itself, or multiply a sine LFO with a rectified quantized version of itself, i have diva in front of me right now, and i put some parameters in the modifications but nothing happens so I know im doing wrong sorry for my stupidity and thank you so much for your time

The idea is rather simple: I you set the rectify input to LFO 1 on the mods tab, then you can use the "rectify" modulation source e.g. to modulate filter cutoff or oscilator tune - which would then be a rectified LFO.

The modifiers are there to take an existing modulation signal (Velocity, Wheels, envelopes...) and transform it into something else. The modified signal is available from the drop down list of modulators, under the name of the modifier

So what Howie suggests is to actually use modifiers in parallel and series to create completely different modulation signals. If you subtract (invert + add) a lagged (lowpassed) signal from itself, then it becomes highpassed. A highpassed squarewave will look like short spikes going up and down, which might be great for rhythmic sounds.

I will admit that it's probably more "tangible" in Bazille where everything works with wires. We tried that in Diva, but it was too messy...

[Ch00rD]

There is danger potential... we took some precautions but if you set rectifyer input to add and an add input to rectify, this whole thing can blow up instantly. Circular routings with add or multiply are highly unrecommended. I prevented some but not all combinations

... just when you had us thinking that you solved the zero delay feedback problem, it's rearing it's ugly head in the modulation section.

[homunculus]

thanks for the feedback guys, im getting some results, theres still a little doubt in me as to how achieve a sound i have in my head using the modifications. what im going to do is go through all the presets that have mods in them and study them to see how the modifications interact with the sounds, i feel dumb because in zebra i can achieve a lot of sounds and imo zebra is more complicated than Diva or at least it seems that way but Diva is such a beauty that i had to put zebra away for a while

[Howard]

OK, I definitely need to explain Modificatiions a lot better in the manual!

[homunculus]

lol i read the manual and the modification explanation seems pretty clear, its just in practice i dont know what the hell im doing lol Howard maybe if you could do a quick video on making a patch and using the modifications, it would probably clear up all my doubts, i would be extremely grateful! Your videos on Zebra really made me understand her and got me to a point where i was very comfortable creating my own sounds

[DocAtlas]

I agree with homunculus, some video tutorials on using the modifications would be helpful. I was wondering what had happened to the patch panel that had been in the last beta I had tried; I can see where it could have become messy.

I have a lot of experience with synthesis, but I can see where it can be a little harder without the patch cables to see what is modulating what.

[rockin1]

I think a scope for the mod signals would help clear it up really quickly. Things are always easier when they can be visualized.

[SJ_Digriz]

OK, I definitely need to explain Modificatiions a lot better in the manual!

Howard, in the manual maybe use a specific patch example that has routings to different modules. I thought I had it figured out, but it doesn't ever do what I think it's going to. So, I clearly don't get it yet.

[xh3rv]

I think a scope for the mod signals would help clear it up really quickly. Things are always easier when they can be visualized.

White noise with filter modulated by the desired signal on the scope isn't too bad of a visual approximation, and useful at least when there's uncertainty about the function of something. I think this is pretty legit and feels like enough to me, but I have some dogma about not using scopes except where the precision is needed.

[dmbaer]

OK, I definitely need to explain Modificatiions a lot better in the manual!

That would get my vote as the most useful documentation improvement. Nice job with the manual, Howard. But this is the one area I think needs beefing up, maybe with some examples.

[dmbaer]

The Modifications panel has quite a a lot of tricks up its sleeve, despite the limited number of elements.

Has any thought been given to including a numeric constant as an "addend" or "multiplicand" selection? I'm not sure, but it seems like this would make it possible to, just as one example, have the mod wheel modulate a filter cutoff between 50 and 60 using the full range of the mod wheel.

[pdxindy]

The Modifications panel has quite a a lot of tricks up its sleeve, despite the limited number of elements.

Has any thought been given to including a numeric constant as an "addend" or "multiplicand" selection? I'm not sure, but it seems like this would make it possible to, just as one example, have the mod wheel modulate a filter cutoff between 50 and 60 using the full range of the mod wheel.

Some synths have that... I use the racks in Live to do it with Diva

[audiobot202]

I'm not too proud to admit that this largely goes over my head. Heck, I was terrible at mathematics at school and even struggled in the basic class, so modifications are way 'out there' for me. The problem is not in experimentation, but in getting a sound from conception to execution. If I don't even get what the mods are, how they can be used and what they might even sonically do to a sound....then how am I to even realise a specific sound?
Zebra is great for experimenting this way.

[Howard]

The Modifications panel has quite a a lot of tricks up its sleeve, despite the limited number of elements.

Has any thought been given to including a numeric constant as an "addend" or "multiplicand" selection? I'm not sure, but it seems like this would make it possible to, just as one example, have the mod wheel modulate a filter cutoff between 50 and 60 using the full range of the mod wheel.

Use Voice Map Modulator as "addend" if you need it. However, for your mod wheel to cutoff example, you don't need that. Look at the filter panels again... it's too easy

[snigelx]

Thanks for the nice topic! Yes, this is next-level programming, like using lfos for env following tricks, etc. I'm learning about using recursive modulations and bitwise modifiers on my Blofeld these past few days (my new workstation hasn't arrived so I can't play with Diva yet) but basically modifiers can make possible env shaping, fun pseudo sequences, wacky modulations as well as providing potential for several practical applications as well, like turning a bipolar mod source into two sep unipolar sources. Some modifier combos are easy to understand. Other, such as the recursive-like function Howard explained earlier require a bit of experimentation or a solid understanding modifier sources and available operations before one will be able to predict the results one will get from making use of them. I'm also very interested in making my understanding more solid, so I too would appreciate if the manual could elaborate a little more on a couple of the less obvious routings and provide info about how one would be able to predict the results.