KVR Audio

optofonik · Post by **optofonik** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:37 am

V-GER wrote:As far as I know the term "wavetable" was first used to describe what goes on in the digital oscillators of the PPG...

I thought this thread would have ended with that.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:58 am

To my mind, 'scanned wavetable synthesis' should be used consistently to refer to PPG-style scanning-through-a-multi-cycle-wavetable systems, as it needs a commonly-understood term which explicitly differentiates it from single-cycle-wavetable systems. There isnt a substitute term for the latter which is nearly as commonly understood as 'scanned wavetable synthesis' is.

Using an expanded term which indicates that one is an expanded version of the other would help clear up these kinds of issues.

<car analogy> no-one calls expects all 'cars' to be 'sports cars' just because people commonly refer to their 'sports car' as a 'car'. By qualifying 'car' with 'sports' we impart properly differentiated, and hence more accurate, information, and remove the possibility of confusion. </car analogy>

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:34 am

A single wave is a Waveform. A series of Waveforms is a Wavetable.......How's that?

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:50 am

Teksonik wrote:A single wave is a Waveform. A series of Waveforms is a Wavetable.......How's that?

Only contextually... Otherwise, it's called an "album" (CD).

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Shabdahbriah wrote:
Teksonik wrote:A single wave is a Waveform. A series of Waveforms is a Wavetable.......How's that?
Only contextually... Otherwise, it's called an "album" (CD).

Really? You are such a Geek......

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:38 pm

Teksonik wrote:A single wave is a Waveform. A series of Waveforms is a Wavetable.......How's that?

Technically, it seems incomplete, and erroneous.

Most obviously, there seems to be a conflation of 'a single wave' with 'a single cycle of a wave,' which would be misleading.

There is also an existing meaning wfor 'Waveform' which isn't limited to single cycles, so you're reinforcing a point of confusion of useage of 'wavetable' into a point of confusion over 'waveform'.

Also, properly, a series (when meaning a sequence) can legitimately contain only one item. Hence a proper distinction should still be made between single-cycle wavetables and multi-cycle wavetables, as per my earlier point.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Oh for God's sake you must be kidding. I never said a wave has to be a single cycle. It can be anything from a single cycle to a whole song as Shab so anally pointed out.....

Yes technically a Sequence can contain a single note but is that really what people think of as a Sequence?

Seriously you geeks have nothing better to do than argue semantics? Have fun.......

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:10 pm

Teksonik wrote:Oh for God's sake you must be kidding. I never said a wave has to be a single cycle.

Then what were you actually contributing? Because throwing in the word 'waveform' as though that helped explain somethig, pretty much didnt.

Yes technically a Sequence can contain a single note but is that really what people think of as a Sequence?

Or to put it another way "Yes technically a wavetable can contain a single cycle but is that really what people think of as a wavetable?"

Answer : yes, and that's the fecking problem being discussed; how to make a clear differentiation.

Seriously you geeks have nothing better to do than argue semantics?

wow, you have nothing better to do than point out that a thread about the semantics of something involves arguing about the semantics of that thing.

What's the word for that? It isnt geek'. I think its 'troll'.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:19 pm

You know Whyte I haven't been able to figure out over the years if pointless arguing is a hobby for you, a sport, or an obsession bordering on OCD....one tends to favor the latter.......

Anyway A single wave is a waveform (Saw,Square etc), a series of waveforms is a Wavetable. That explains it nicely for me and has for the 30 years I've been in synthesis...I'm sorry if the concept is beyond your comprehension.....

At any rate please do carry on.....I'm sure the OCD mandates it.........

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:54 pm

Teksonik wrote:You know Whyte I haven't been able to figure out over the years if pointless arguing is a hobby for you, a sport, or an obsession bordering on OCD....one tends to favor the latter.......

How unexpected; a lame and pathetic attempt at an ad hominem attack. Maybe if you could actually make your point in some sort of well-supported manner you wouldn't have to resort to that level of childishness, but I guess supporting any sort of reasonable argument is beyond you.

Anyway A single wave is a waveform (Saw,Square etc), a series of waveforms is a Wavetable.

Still incomplete and erroneous,

That explains it nicely for me and has for the 30 years I've been in synthesis...

Oh look, an appeal to your own authority, you must be desperate. Im so glad your simplistic and incomplete grasp of the technology explains it sufficiently for you. Maybe you should take that as your lead and just bow out of discussions like this involving anything technically accurate in case it hurts your little head.

I'm sorry if the concept is beyond your comprehension.....

Not quite sure Im understanding that. Your technical knowledge is woefully inadequate so you think mine must be too?
Sorry to burst your sad little bubble, but I reckon my bookshelf on the subject is a little bit more extensive than yours. And some of the books on it were bought, new, 25-plus years ago. So, no, my comprehension of the concept is pretty extensively covered, thanks. More so than the naive 'its a series of waveform, nyuck nyuck nyuck' anyway.

At any rate please do carry on.....

As if I needed your permission.

I'm sure the OCD mandates it.........

I'm glad you find often-debilitating mental conditions so amusing that you bandy them around as insults so freely. Knowing that there are at least a few regulars around here with genuine OCD problems, Im sure they'll appreciate you making fun of their condition as a cheap dig. Its not something I suffer from myself, but I do know its a rather nasty and insidious condition. Nasty and insidious, how apt.

Maybe you'll want to behave like decent human being and delete that shit before a moderator takes you to task for it, though, or is that really the level of snide desparation you're happy to continue with, over something as banal as terminology.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:14 pm

I must be getting old, but... could you guys please stop fighting and attacking each other? You are both right in a way and wrong in another. One argues conventions, the other argues scientific definitions. In any case there's neither a need nor a use in getting personal over different ways of describing certain concepts.

optofonik · Post by **optofonik** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:00 am

Stop yelling and RTFM.

http://seib.synth.net/documents/w22omeng.pdf

Nuff said.

PS: Ap0C552, it's academic at this point (literally) but I hope this helps.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:15 am

Teksonik wrote:Anyway A single wave is a waveform (Saw,Square etc), a series of waveforms is a Wavetable. That explains it nicely for me and has for the 30 years I've been in synthesis...I'm sorry if the concept is beyond your comprehension.....

sorry to bring an end to your 30-year lasting joy, but what is it called when you put a square followed by a saw followed by a triangle followed by a pulse of noise? is that a wave, or a wave-table? (proper name: a waveform)

what about when you have a single "wave" such as a triangle, but this is described by a table of points (vectors)? is that just a wave, or a wave-table? (proper name: table of vectors)

in fact if we had a table containing multiple waves, i don't think it would be correct to call that a wave-table as it isn't a table that makes up a wave. (proper name: table of waveforms)

proper name: wave table.

go on, tell me to call it a table d'onde.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:26 am

aciddose wrote:

Win. End thread.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:48 am

optofonik wrote:Stop yelling and RTFM.

http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Wavetable-101.pdf

Nuff said.

ftfy.

Am I confused about wavetable