Vortex VSTi - Multi Timbral Groove Machine Beta

[soundklinik]

I'll add a useful observation: If I replaced your brains with that of a chicken, you probably would not even notice

I see the wink, so I'll accept your comment as meant good naturedly ... so instead of 'hit and run,' why don't you elaborate on a few 'important' things what you think you can do with Maschine that you can't do with a daw and Vortex?

Then I can consider whether I'd agree with you or you simply underestimate the alternative.

Let's start by saying that if Maschine doesn't include multi outputs from a multitimbral instrument, as is said above, Maschine starts at a significant disadvantage.

As far as my playing around with it goes, Maschine is just a virtual mpc where you can assemble fragments and then link them to make a song. Tell me more, pray tell?

Como

I am glad you have a sense of humor of course it is meant in good nature.
Tell me, do you own maschine?
I do, and I don't need another DAW. I use it almost exclusively as a standalone! So advantage #1

Maschine: (Standalone<>VST combo, with a hardware midi controller).

8 x audio in, and 32 x audio out. MIDI in/out. It Can send midi out to other hardware/software

16 Groups/Channels A-H, with 16 tracks each=256 tracks in total .

256 bars per track, multiply by 64 scenes = 16 384 bar song max.

Each track=(1/16th of a group) can have its own FX- native or VST, Group can have FX and 15 channels can have master FX in 16th channel.

It hosts VSTs, it samples(re-samples) from inside and outside, you can load samples, you can record tweaks, into audio and bounce the result on another channel or track without even stopping Maschine...
Do I need to go on? Do you realize the difference?
Can we stop comparing different products with Vortex, so the forum does not degenerate into stupidity?

[soundklinik]

MPCs are very multi-timbral, I have an MPC1000 and you have 32 midi outs, the 2500 has 128, each pattern has 64 tracks that can target either midi or internal programs. That's why I was surprised that maschine didn't. I had bit of a play on one in a music shop a couple of weeks ago though, and I liked the pads

What do you mean by maschine is NOT multi timbral?

Definition of: multi-timbral
The ability to play multiple instrument sounds (patches) simultaneously.

Can you elaborate?

[Astralp]

Well if you wanted to use Vortex with external midi, according to TJ the midi output can only be directed to 1 midi channel within maschine. Vortex can target up to 12 midi channels, but the host has to support routing the output. It means that Vortex is only useful within maschine using the internal sound engine, which is fine if that's all you want from it, but it can't be used to control 12 external VSTi's for example.

Also if I understood correctly direct mode doesn't work, which is where vortex sends each internal synth out on it's own audio channel. Seems that maschine doesn't support multi audio outputs from a vst plugin as well.

I'm sure these features must be in a future update, they're quite important for a host to have, and maschine is still fairly young.

btw did you try the midi logger?

MPCs are very multi-timbral, I have an MPC1000 and you have 32 midi outs, the 2500 has 128, each pattern has 64 tracks that can target either midi or internal programs. That's why I was surprised that maschine didn't. I had bit of a play on one in a music shop a couple of weeks ago though, and I liked the pads

What do you mean by maschine is NOT multi timbral?

Definition of: multi-timbral
The ability to play multiple instrument sounds (patches) simultaneously.

Can you elaborate?

[Astralp]

Ammonite does mostly load, except the output meters are in the red when loaded in the hosts. Cantabile ouput meters show the same.

Did you install the MT Patches installer?

Vortex doesn't like Reaper or Cantabile. There is path problem (recording) even though the paths are correct. Vortex doesn't create a config.txt.

Is the directory read only? All of my plugins need write access to the folder they are in, though on XP I'd be surprised if this was the problem.

So Vortex is now loading on your DAW?

Also are you experiencing the load scale problem, I'm desperate for someone to send me the debug file that's having this problem, otherwise I have no chance of fixing it..

I think we need to do a 1 to 1 session via email to debug what's going on the daw machine sometime this week...

[Astralp]

I hope Vortex will have a way to input the notes other than the mouse, in fact i have an FR relating to that.

It did use the same CCs as ARP but it was causing a conflict somewhere and so it's disabled for now, it needs work but it is on the list. I may need to try using RPNs for it, 32 is a lot of controllers to tie up... It will only edit the current sequence, but that should be enough?

[soundklinik]

Well if you wanted to use Vortex with external midi, according to TJ the midi output can only be directed to 1 midi channel within maschine. Vortex can target up to 12 midi channels, but the host has to support routing the output. It means that Vortex is only useful within maschine using the internal sound engine, which is fine if that's all you want from it, but it can't be used to control 12 external VSTi's for example.

Also if I understood correctly direct mode doesn't work, which is where vortex sends each internal synth out on it's own audio channel. Seems that maschine doesn't support multi audio outputs from a vst plugin as well.

I don't know what TJ is talking about. For sequencing hardware synths with Maschine, there is midi in/out and you can have 16 channels driving 16 synths.
In software, I use LOOPBE1, 16 channels.
Any channel in maschine has audio in, (for routing) and midi out to external hardware synths or to VST platforms like Chainer, BloXpander etc...So where is the problem?
Loopbe30 has 30 PORTS, each with 16 channes, so 480 channels in total.
Many people have no clue what midi is and what it does, just ask if anyone has written a sysex message.

As far as multi out, dirrect mode goes, my AK-1 has 2 in/4 out and maschine has 8 in and 32 out. I don't use multis out, for example Battery 3 (I use) has 16 stereo and 30 mono outs ...What do you use it for? I am not a PRO, mixing each channel separately, in my bedroom it all comes out of 2 big stereo monitors and a sub. However, people talk about multi out, and I thought that it is done.
So I really can't comment on this "direct" feature... Call me a noob

I am going to try the midi logger now, I will let you know how it goes...

BTW if anyone wants to know what Maschine is lacking, head over to NI's Maschine forum

[Astralp]

I think he means using vst synths inside maschine and routing the channels internally from Vortex. I don't have maschine and so only know what I've heard on this thread.

As for the direct outs, they generally appear as extra channels on the hosts internal mixer so that you can mix them using effects sends etc.. within the host.

[soundklinik]

How do I run the midi logger? I tried, it shows numbers but I can't save it, it shows mostly CC7 and others? How do I save it or print it so you can read it?

[Astralp]

It produces a file at c:\debug.txt, as I said in the email if you could load up from scratch, press no keys or buttons etc... and then send the log file. Basically if you are seeing CC7 in this situation then Maschine is sending CC7 to the midi in on the plugin.

Do you have something on the controller mapped to CC7?

The plugin shows/logs note on/note off and CC messages.

[soundklinik]

Hi Andy, check your mail please, I sent you 3 files.
Hope you can shed some light on it.
Nobody else has this problem?
Cheers

[Astralp]

Just replied, there must be a control set to CC7, I've just suggested you use the logger and play with all the controls until you can see which one is set to cc7. You will see the CC number on the green display.

[soundklinik]

OK, I went back to audio/midi preferences and reset everything, then I reopened Maschine and there is no CC7 showing, so far I loaded Vortex in group H, still midi channel 1 and so far no problem, it works

got to quit now. cheers

[Astralp]

Oh Good

[Astralp]

/////////BETA 28
* There's now a CC thru row on the synth page, if enabled CCs are now passed through when using the midi THRU - 7, 10 and other undesirables are filtered out.
* Audio Meters are now set to private.
* CTRL + SHIFT Click on the Sequence CCA/CCB to send the value of step 1 for midi learn purposes.
* Fixed a problem with unnecessary CPU usage when not using Direct Outs.
* Recorder Engine improved - Now uses the registry to store the path, click on the browse button browse to the folder select and it's automatically updated.
* Recorder now records files to a sub folder named after the BPM.
* Recorder Bars are now synced to the first midi note sent by the sequencers so that it will always begin recording at the start of the sequencers, not requiring sync with the host bars.

Still no word on the Load Scale issue anyone?

The Recorder has had a complete overhaul and is now much slicker, now uses the registry and updates the path automatically once changed. It also starts recording bars from the first sent midi note instead of host bar start

[MarkSA]

So Vortex is now loading on your DAW?

Also are you experiencing the load scale problem, I'm desperate for someone to send me the debug file that's having this problem, otherwise I have no chance of fixing it..

Only on N track studio. But it doesn't record anything.

The load scale button does work and does send info to the debug. Is it working because it is compiled for debug?

I have loaded the MT Patches on the DAW.

I will look into the directory read and install the latest beta.