controller for DIVA

[PAK]

It turns out this isn't the case - with Automap automap-enabled twins of a plug-in get hosted, which allows Novation to hook into parameters that are directly exposed to the host.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you've said... It's hooking to those automated parameters over MIDI behind the scenes even though it's not doing it in front of your eyes. So you can map to parameters even when they don't have CC's assigned by the plugin, but it's still doing its talking behind the scenes in CC's, which then get translated by the Automap software to host automation values. Feel free to change the CC's of the Automap template and see how long it functions for..

[xh3rv]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you've said... It's hooking to those automated parameters over MIDI behind the scenes even though it's not doing it in front of your eyes. So you can map to parameters even when they don't have CC's assigned by the plugin, but it's still doing its talking behind the scenes in CC's, which then get translated by the Automap software to host automation values. Feel free to change the CC's of the Automap template and see how long it functions for..

The top-level organization has both generic MIDI 'devices' - they just send CCs - and plug-in specific devices to choose from, so this confuses things. It's possible to use a generic MIDI device map to control a plug. But, it's evident when using a specific plug-in device map that it's not MIDI.

[PAK]

The top-level organization has both generic MIDI 'devices' - they just send CCs - and plug-in specific devices to choose from, so this confuses things. It's possible to use a generic MIDI device map to control a plug. But, it's evident when using a specific plug-in device map that it's not MIDI.

"Automap" is simply a MIDI template on the controller device, just like any other MIDI template. Novation stick some software on top, but it's still talking with MIDI over USB to its software behind the scenes afaik. You can choose to send CC's from the controller, or use Automation. But mixing both pretty much always leads to issues.

But if you're saying there's a way to map the Range/Detune button so it actually works properly within the normal Automap mode then I'm all ears

[Urs]

But if you're saying there's a way to map the Range/Detune button so it actually works properly within the normal Automap mode then I'm all ears

Well, that might be a problem... we solved it for MIDI, but if Automap uses Parameter automation, then Novation would have to solve it for that. It would make a lot of sense though (fine/coarse control might always be an issue)

[PAK]

Well, that might be a problem... we solved it for MIDI, but if Automap uses Parameter automation, then Novation would have to solve it for that. It would make a lot of sense though (fine/coarse control might always be an issue)

It would.. but I'm not actually aware of any other software which shares the controls in that way? Everything I use has separate coarse/fine-tune automation values. But maybe there's some exceptionally good reason for you to share the value this way and it isn't readily apparent? If so I'd be curious what that reason is?

On the other side, it's also not a simple fix for Novation to implement either. Lets use the actual Diva example.. You have a first knob that moves 5 steps of 12 between -24 and +24, and second slider which moves freely between -30 and +30. Both are assigned to the same automation control.

If you use this second slider to set +15, and you move a step of +12 on the first knob, Novation Automap sees that the knob will generate +27, which is beyond the first knobs maximum allowed range of -24 to +24. So, instead of sending an incremental +12, it sends an absolute value of 24 because that is what you've set the maximum allowed value of the control to. Even if the automation range actually supports +/-30 the software respects the knobs set range, which is what you'd expect/normally want!

You're effectively asking them either to code a special option for their software which respects the maximum automation value and sends increments, regardless of a controls min/max range, or to code additional logic which understands when two values are linked and what to do in such a scenario.

Whilst such features would be nice to see, and add to Automaps capabilities, it would seem to me it is far (far) easier for Diva to implement a separate coarse/fine-tune control, as pretty much everyone else does, rather than expect Novation to do these things? Unless maybe Novation are big U-he fans and you think they might actually do it?

[saxer]

i use my old virus a - it's defect and gives no audio out but all the knobs send midi cc.
i let most of my plugins learn the midi data... cutoff for cutoff, envelope for envelope... easy to find all controllers at the synth.
synths are so different that not all cc can be assigned but for the main editing it works great.
so i think a synth is the best controller for synths.

[xh3rv]

It's worth noting that why Automap can't handle a footage knob in Diva is the same reason it can't do it with any synth* - it truncates. Ideal behavior for a footage knob would not allow any truncation. Describing a few user-selectable alternate cases seems like it'd be simple to code (the logic is nearly automatic ...), and comes up outside of the footage-vs-detune context Diva presents. I'm inclined to believe the reason it hasn't happened already is more about Novation than technology.

* Well, any synth that doesn't have an independent footage control (which has another set of occasionally problematic nuances ...)

[e] - nvm, had a hasty thought about using right-click options on knobs but makes less sense now

[Gonga]

I have the 49-key Novation X-Station, and I love it for a controller. It also has a great semi-weighted action, polyphonic synth, audio interface, arpeggiator, nice effects and runs on C batteries! All the knobs are labelled as to analog function. I'd like the 66-key one even better though!



Here's a pic of the editing software that comes free with the synth and downloadable at the website. The synth is well laid-out and nicely labelled!

http://danling.com/studio/images/X-Stat ... raphic.jpg

[mcnoone]

http://danling.com/studio/images/X-Stat ... raphic.jpg

It doesn't have a static modwheel?
A controller without a static modwheel is not a good thing for me.
If I do a sound that has many different tones simply by moving the modwheel in any certain position and leaving it there. You can't do it with that spring loaded mw. Of course you can use your DAW's automation to move it into static positions though.
Does the Xstation have aftertouch?

[Gonga]

It has channel aftertouch, and there's a slider underneath where you can disconnect / reconnect the spring. I tell you, this was the best value synth EVA!

I'm a pedal man and tend to use the pedal for most things people use mod wheels for. I also program my patches so that when the mod wheel springs back, the timbre is perfect. For example, with my patches the cutoff frequency is usually at 0 and I adjust the filter mod amount and envelope sustain to the correct dark timbre. Then you can use the wheel to increase the cutoff and when it returns to zero the tone doesn't cut out - it's perfect. When you check out the Diva patches that's one way you can tell my patches from the others (except for one or two where I messed up to meet the deadline )

[PAK]

It's worth noting that why Automap can't handle a footage knob in Diva is the same reason it can't do it with any synth* - it truncates.

Hmm, I'm having a hard time following your English.. I'm unclear what you mean by "footage knob"? Do you mean a volume / expression pedal?

The inability to transmit a proper full range of smooth MIDI controller data there is a common issue which has nothing to do with Novation. It's about the polarity of the pedal, whether or not it has a range adjustment knob, and what ohm value is on the pot (10K etc). Basically pedals have different standards and, unless you're comfortable with a soldering iron, you need to buy a pedal from Novations approved list otherwise it will not work correctly. Martin Walker (of SOS) has a helpful guide about this stuff somewhere on the Sound On Sound forum.

[PAK]

It has channel aftertouch, and there's a slider underneath where you can disconnect / reconnect the spring. I tell you, this was the best value synth EVA!

Yeah, not only that - at least on the Remote SL series controllers - you can actually calibrate the joystick so that it doesn't do what a lot of controllers are annoyingly guilty of - which is to transmit unintended pitch or mod values because the control is finicky about returning to a zero/centred position.

[xh3rv]

It's worth noting that why Automap can't handle a footage knob in Diva is the same reason it can't do it with any synth* - it truncates.

Hmm, I'm having a hard time following your English.. I'm unclear what you mean by "footage knob"? Do you mean a volume / expression pedal?

Ah, sorry no - I mean the octave-tuning 'transpose' knobs on Diva. The labels are powers of two - an octave up is twice the frequency, half the wavelength. Somehow this relates to wavelegnths measured of distance US 'feet', which is why the lables have the ' symbol, and why it can be called a 'footage' knob. Sort of a strange term ...

[PAK]

Ah, sorry no - I mean the octave-tuning 'transpose' knobs on Diva. The labels are powers of two - an octave up is twice the frequency, half the wavelength. Somehow this relates to wavelegnths measured of distance US 'feet', which is why the lables have the ' symbol, and why it can be called a 'footage' knob. Sort of a strange term ...

Ahh, ok. Btw It's related to church pipe organs, and the length of the pipes in feet Vs pitch they produce

Anyway, there is no Octave tuning knob on Diva as far as automation is concerned. There is only a single fine tune value, which the octave knob shares. As I said I'm interested in why Urs feels it's important to implement it this way when it causes issues and no other major software (I'm aware of) uses such methods.

[Rimwolf]

The labels are powers of two - an octave up is twice the frequency, half the wavelength. Somehow this relates to wavelegnths measured of distance US 'feet', which is why the lables have the ' symbol, and why it can be called a 'footage' knob. Sort of a strange term ...

The foot terminology goes back to pipe organs, where the various stops are named partly by the length of the longest pipe in that rank. A pipe twice as long has half the frequency (one octave down).