How does time signatures affect the note arrangement? 4\4 and 6\4 specifically...

[Nicksaf]

I have a choir track which is not quantized. Im struggling in wich signature i should arrange it, will it sound the same in 4\4 and 6\4?

All i know about theory is that you count the beats and that if you count 12 beats you get 4 bars and so on... but how it comes to action is still a mystery to me.
Could some please explain what's the difference between this two signatures?

Whenever i read theory it just messes with my head.
Thanks!

[shankfiddle]

If you wrote it chances are it's in 4/4. i mean realistically, it's hard to write in time signatures if you have not learned them. listen for downbeats and where you feel each bar starts.

All time sigs sibdivide into groups of 2 and 3.

4/4 is two 2s
6/4 is two 3s

try counting them yourself and feel the difference.

Then you get compound times like
5 can be 2-3 or 3-2
7 can be 3-2-2 or 2-2-3 or 2-3-2
9 is generally 3-3-3 but I've seen a romanian folk song that was subdivided 2-3-2-2 which was really cool.

Hell even in a 4/4 if you're subdividing 16th notes you can count it 5-5-6, whole new feel.

[Nicksaf]

So it's better to use 4\4 for now, ok. Anyway i don't seem to understand how the counting works completely. By groups you mean notes? Or it's not only notes but also rests? It's just not clear enough for me. I don't even know how to ask it.

My track has long chords for like 2 or 4 bars before the next chord comes. How do i count it, and how does the counting would look in the key editor?

[EvilDragon]

Having audio would help deciding on the time signature. Preferably if you have any other instruments along with the choir...

12 beats is not always 4 bars, it depends on the time signature. If it were 4 bars, then we're talking about 3/4, not 4/4.

[KBSoundSmith]

Just to add to what was said:

If you are in 4/4 time, that means that a quarter note is equal to one beat per measure, and that there are four beats in the measure.

Additionally, 4/4 time is an example of what's called simple quadruple meter, and 6/4 an example of what's called compound duple meter. Simple meter means that the groups of beats are felt/divided in twos, and simple quadruple meter means that there are four such groups. Compound meter means the groups of beats are felt/divided into threes, and compound duple meter means there are two such groups. Let me further illustrate.

4/4 time would be counted in the following manner:

>...-...(>)...-...
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +

Where 1 gets a strong emphasis, 2 a weak, 3 relatively strong, and 4 weak (this idealized, by the way)

6/4 time would be counted in the following manner:

>.....(>).....
1 2 3 4 5 6

or alternatively

>.....(>).....
1 + + 2 + +

Where 1 gets a strong emphasis, and 4 (or 2 if you use the alternative notation) is relatively strong.

I assume you are familiar with some folk tunes? Yankee Doodle is an example of simple meter, and For He's a Jolly Good Fellow an example of compound meter.

Hope that helps.

Edit: damn, it wasn't keeping my formatting; Ignore the periods that are above the numbers, I put them there as placeholders

[BertKoor]

My track has long chords for like 2 or 4 bars before the next chord comes. How do i count it, and how does the counting would look in the key editor?

Keep this in mind:

Each tick is a quarter note.
Count up loud "One two three four, One two three four"
Tempo should be adjusted to the track and kept in sync so the "one" falls at the right place. That can be tricky to achieve indeed... Would be easier if you filmed the conductor of the choir as well.

[Nicksaf]

So it's better to use 4\4 for now, ok. Anyway i don't seem to understand how the counting works completely. By groups you mean notes? Or it's not only notes but also rests? It's just not clear enough for me. I don't even know how to ask it.

My track has long chords for like 2 or 4 bars before the next chord comes. How do i count it, and how does the counting would look in the key editor?

[JumpingJackFlash]

I have a choir track which is not quantized. Im struggling in wich signature i should arrange it, will it sound the same in 4\4 and 6\4?

All i know about theory is that you count the beats and that if you count 12 beats you get 4 bars and so on... but how it comes to action is still a mystery to me.
Could some please explain what's the difference between this two signatures?

Whenever i read theory it just messes with my head.
Thanks!

The following might be useful:
An Introduction to Time-Signatures
(You might have to scroll down a bit for the relevant section).

As others have said, you need to work out which are the 'strong' beats (slightly emphasised) and which are the 'weak' beats.

Of course, it is entirely possible it could change time signature midway through!

[jancivil]

So it's better to use 4\4 for now, ok. Anyway i don't seem to understand how the counting works completely. By groups you mean notes? Or it's not only notes but also rests? It's just not clear enough for me. I don't even know how to ask it.

My track has long chords for like 2 or 4 bars before the next chord comes. How do i count it, and how does the counting would look in the key editor?

there is just no way for any of us to know.

Not all music has to be counted or fit with any clock. You could have what turns out to be one bar, who knows. you'd have to post something, preferably audio to get anything out of us you can use. talking in the abstract when you don't have the rudiments is likely a waste of our, and your own, time.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Additionally, 4/4 time is an example of what's called simple quadruple meter, and 6/4 an example of what's called compound duple meter.

Make sure you don't confuse anyone between 6/4 and 6/8.
6/8 is the more common compound duple (the beat is a dotted-crotchet which is split into two lots of three quavers).

6/4 is comparatively rare, and would perhaps more likely be written in 3/4.

[KBSoundSmith]

Additionally, 4/4 time is an example of what's called simple quadruple meter, and 6/4 an example of what's called compound duple meter.

Make sure you don't confuse anyone between 6/4 and 6/8.
6/8 is the more common compound duple (the beat is a dotted-crotchet which is split into two lots of three quavers).

6/4 is comparatively rare, and would perhaps more likely be written in 3/4.

lol, yeah, I'm aware. The OP mentioned 6/4 in the first post, so I simply continued with his example.

So it's better to use 4\4 for now, ok. Anyway i don't seem to understand how the counting works completely. By groups you mean notes? Or it's not only notes but also rests? It's just not clear enough for me. I don't even know how to ask it.

When you count, you are counting both notes and rests.

Now for the groups, it's the feeling you have about where (on which beats) the emphasis lies.

Try this:

Stand up, and count in 4/4 time while walking. For beat 1, put down your right foot; on beat 2 your left, 3 right, and 4 left.
Ready?

Right 1 + Left 2 + Right 3 + Left 4 +

Make sure to do it evenly.

Now, let's do it for 6/8 time (Happy JumpinJack? )
For beat 1, put down your right foot; for beat 4 put down your left.
Ready?

Right 1 2 3 Left 4 5 6

Do both 4/4 and 6/8 until you are comfortable with the way it feels.

[aciddose]

i prefer it more like a zombie limp, left, right (drag what's left of your mangled foot), left, left, right (drag, etc), left.

[KBSoundSmith]

i prefer it more like a zombie limp, left, right (drag what's left of your mangled foot), left, left, right (drag, etc), left.

Given your username, I'm not surprised

[aciddose]

well, that would be more like a bedazzled hippy limp though wouldn't it?

[Nicksaf]

Thanks for your help guys! Ill try and post my track soon...