KVR Audio

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:23 pm

AKJ wrote:
Bronto Scorpio wrote:
AKJ wrote:
hakey wrote:
AKJ wrote:z3ta+ also has some non-linear modeling, see the picture here
Which picture? And how does it show that z3ta+ uses nonlinear modelling?
the picture of the performance section which shows the analog burst and analog drift knobs. As the manual explains:

"Burst: Filtered DC-Burst level.
This will create a "pop" on Note-On, mostly used to recreate old analog drum machine
sounds, or to add some punch to a program."

"Drift: Random detuning level.
This feature is commonly used to emulate the tuning instabilities in early analog
synthesizers.
The random detune affects every oscillator individually."
These features have nothing to do with nonlinearities though.

Cheers
Dennis
so tuning instabilities do have nothing to do with non-linearities?

Not as such no... different things

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:25 pm

aciddose wrote:
AKJ wrote:"Burst: Filtered DC-Burst level.
This will create a "pop" on Note-On, mostly used to recreate old analog drum machine
sounds, or to add some punch to a program."
who wrote that?

doesn't inspire confidence that they have any idea what they're talking about.

do they mean dc feed-through?

Isn't that Dave Grohl on the right. (Could be on the left if they are doing a new learn to fly video)

AKJ · Post by **AKJ** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:28 pm

hakey wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I looked at that page but I see nothing there about non-linear modeling. Did you link the wrong page?
He thinks that the "Burst" and "Drift" features are examples of nonlinear modelling.

well, bursts and drifts are by definition non-linear, aren't they. I did not say that z3ta+ uses non-linear modeling in the same way that Diva does. I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:31 pm

AKJ wrote:
hakey wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I looked at that page but I see nothing there about non-linear modeling. Did you link the wrong page?
He thinks that the "Burst" and "Drift" features are examples of nonlinear modelling.
well, bursts and drifts are by definition non-linear, aren't they. I did not say that z3ta+ uses non-linear modeling in the same way that Diva does. I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.

Fair enough.

Yet, those "nonlinear properties" have nothing in common with the nonlinearities that I meant in the example with the Neve EQ. With "nonlinearities" audio people commonly mean distortion effects such as waveshapers.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:37 pm

AKJ wrote: I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.

Routing a slow lfo to modulate pitch to give an impression of drift is not the same as modelling the nonlinearities that cause drift in an analog synth.

AKJ · Post by **AKJ** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:46 pm

hakey wrote:
AKJ wrote: I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.
Routing a slow lfo to modulate pitch to give an impression of drift is not the same as simulating the behaviour that cause drift in an analog synth.

who cares if the results sound similar enough? What is more, I rather see it as a creative possibility. Sometimes it just sounds interesting.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:53 pm

AKJ wrote:
hakey wrote:
AKJ wrote: I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.
Routing a slow lfo to modulate pitch to give an impression of drift is not the same as simulating the behaviour that cause drift in an analog synth.
who cares if the results sound similar enough? What is more, I rather see it as a creative possibility. Sometimes it just sounds interesting.

Some seem to care though what process is used to simulate the drift. Me, I am not so picky....

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:55 pm

AKJ wrote:
hakey wrote:Routing a slow lfo to modulate pitch to give an impression of drift is not the same as simulating the behaviour that cause drift in an analog synth.
who cares if the results sound similar enough?

But for many people the results of faking rather than modelling various nonlinear behaviours (particularly filters) don't sound similar enough.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun May 06, 2012 7:59 pm

AKJ wrote:
hakey wrote:
AKJ wrote: I just wanted to show that there are other synths that have some kind of non-linear modeling.
Routing a slow lfo to modulate pitch to give an impression of drift is not the same as simulating the behaviour that cause drift in an analog synth.
who cares if the results sound similar enough? What is more, I rather see it as a creative possibility. Sometimes it just sounds interesting.

Go to the Trimmers page in Diva and there you will find Drift and per osc detune controls, filter cutoff slop etc.

But those are different than the non-linear responses I was talking about.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sun May 06, 2012 8:00 pm

When I have my Arp2600 on it drifts in a different manner from others as well...try to model something that was wired by hand sometime. You'd need a whole pile of them just to get a general idea of drift..and even then...

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sun May 06, 2012 9:44 pm

"drift" isn't a thing. it's like "music". can you "model" "music" ?

can you even define it?

being able to understand things is all that is required and it is very simple. exceedingly simple.

it requires a lot of processing power.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sun May 06, 2012 10:34 pm

there are no such things as 'things'
a thing is a noun, there are no nouns in the physical world

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Sun May 06, 2012 10:34 pm

aciddose wrote:"drift" isn't a thing.

its a defect

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:38 am

i'm not sure if you're saying you didn't understand or not. whether or not what i meant was you can't group everything that falls under the label "drift" under one cause or one effect. there are a heck of a lot of factors involved and a lot of results as well. the only thing you can generalize about is that usually this results in gradual drifting of frequency. that's about it though.

as for whether "non-linearity" has anything to do with "drift" this is just insanity. taking two generalized terms which really don't even mean much on their own in the proper context and claiming one causes the other.

the sort of thing you'd hear coming out of the mouth of a mental patient.

bananas cause spring patio furniture set vouchers to be distributed in the mail by postal workers wearing pink aprons! don't you see they're all watching us, you're one of them!

(should probably say nsfw)

AKJ · Post by **AKJ** » Mon May 07, 2012 7:54 am

I do not want to comment on aciddose who is now really going beyond the border (you are muted for me), I just want to give some information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_system

drift is the increasing discrepancy between an expected and a "real" value. See the example of clock drift:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_drift

per se, it can, in some cases, be describes with a linear function, but it is (more) often not. What is more, in such (linear) cases it is very easy to compensate for the drift. In the case of analog synths the tuning drift is clearly of a non-linear nature (otherwise it could and would have have been compensated) and it is also caused by the non-linear behavior of its components (caused by temperature dependance etc.). I do not know why we even discuss it.

Does anyone NOT like Diva?