What are your favorite non-Valhalla reverbs, and why?

[valhallasound]

The backing vocals in "Trouble" by Cat Stevens:



I'm guessing EMT140. It might be a chamber, but I don't know how common reverb chambers were in Britain at the time, outside of Abbey Road.

Anyway, I've always loved how the heavy reverb was just applied to this 3-note wordless backing vocal phrase. Gorillaz did something similar in "Dare," but it doesn't stand out as a reverb example as much as this song.

Sean Costello

[Krakatau]

Hi all,

I spend a lot of time thinking about the "how" of reverbs. Tonight, I am more interested in the "what" and "why." Specifically:

- What are your favorite reverbs?
- And, why are those your favorite reverbs? What is it about the sound of those reverbs, or the experience of those reverbs, that makes them your favorites?

A few suggested ground rules for the discussion:

- The reverb can be ANY reverb possible. Plugin, hardware, physical space, a dream, a memory, a favorite song, a reverb that doesn't exist yet. Think big. You don't have to own it, or have owned it, but you need to have experienced it.

- No Valhalla DSP reverbs, please. I would like this to be a marketing/spin free zone, and am thus removing my plugins from this discussion. I want to keep the discussion about the WHY of reverbs, as opposed to discussions of one brand versus another.

- One anecdote per post. You can post as many reverb experiences as you like, but I would ask that you separate your experiences into different posts. Think of this as "small plates." This is a tapas/izakaya thread, with the goal to make each post easily digestible, leaving room for more.

- No debating. This is about YOUR favorite reverb experiences. No one can take away YOUR reverb experience. It is YOURS.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments!

Sean Costello

I didn't notice that you were the starter of this topic so i came in lately...

...as favorite reverb and why i'd have a quite pragmatic answer to submit here :

in practice my favourite reverb remains beeing Space Designer mainly because i'm trained to use it :

- in quickly create accurate pre-delay approximation

- in choosing different and contrasting suggestive reflections for sparse instrumental touches in arrangement/composition

- and finally for experimenting/creating many exotic IRs (and defining significant process chains ,on that purpose perhaps you might an interest having a glance on this old thread : http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... eep+spaces )

[gavriloP]

The backing vocals in "Trouble" by Cat Stevens:



I'm guessing EMT140. It might be a chamber, but I don't know how common reverb chambers were in Britain at the time, outside of Abbey Road.

Anyway, I've always loved how the heavy reverb was just applied to this 3-note wordless backing vocal phrase. Gorillaz did something similar in "Dare," but it doesn't stand out as a reverb example as much as this song.

Sean Costello

WOW, this is probably my favourite song from Cat Stevens, well, this and Lady D'Arbanville. Cat's reverbs and arrangements are beautiful, seemingly spartan at first but so rich when you dwell into them, the beautiful amalgam of dry and wet. And I'm not talking about those Phil Spector atrocities from the beginning of his career...

Great old vocal recordings managed to have that seemingly dry vocal sound that still could have tons of plate or chamber in the background, it just never got in the way of vocals, but rather lifted them.

Here are couple of examples, they have most of the lows cut from the verb and I think that does the trick. Also the fact that the verb is mono adds good vibes IMHO.

[Chad@PA]

This has been a very interesting thread so far.

Indeed

Cheers
Dennis

Yes. For me, this has been one of my most interesting threads on KvR that I've read in a while. Thanks Sean for sharing your obsession/passion and dropping knowledge on us for everyone's favorite tracks and verb sounds.

I'd have to say that my favorite reverb experience was in Boston at NEU there is a courtyard/quad that has a bizarre reverb focal point. You have to stand exactly in the center facing the longest distance building, while the building on your sides are equal distanced. The sound from the sides comes back just slightly faster and creates this feeling like someone is tickling your ears (almost like you are wearing a wacky headphone set), it's really hard to describe. But if you step outside of it just a foot or so the effect is lost. So really only one person can experience it at a time properly.

[valhallasound]

Yes. For me, this has been one of my most interesting threads on KvR that I've read in a while. Thanks Sean for sharing your obsession/passion and dropping knowledge on us for everyone's favorite tracks and verb sounds.

My pleasure. I've been thinking about this reverb stuff for a few decades now, and just wanted to open up the conversation a bit more.

I'd have to say that my favorite reverb experience was in Boston at NEU there is a courtyard/quad that has a bizarre reverb focal point. You have to stand exactly in the center facing the longest distance building, while the building on your sides are equal distanced. The sound from the sides comes back just slightly faster and creates this feeling like someone is tickling your ears (almost like you are wearing a wacky headphone set), it's really hard to describe. But if you step outside of it just a foot or so the effect is lost. So really only one person can experience it at a time properly.

I've had similar experiences in rooms that are largely circular. There is one of these in the lobby of a hospital in Seattle (Virginia Mason? I can't remember who I was visiting there), and another one at the Woodland Park Zoo. Stand in the exact center of the room, or the "focus point" of the parabolic surfaces, and it is like the volume goes WAY UP. There is also a disturbing presence to the sound as you mentioned - right in your ears, kinda bandpass filtered, not "natural" at all. It only works for a certain spot.

Sean Costello

[valhallasound]

Great old vocal recordings managed to have that seemingly dry vocal sound that still could have tons of plate or chamber in the background, it just never got in the way of vocals, but rather lifted them.

Here are couple of examples, they have most of the lows cut from the verb and I think that does the trick. Also the fact that the verb is mono adds good vibes IMHO.

Both of these examples sound like reverb chambers. My guess is that at least one of the chambers was designed by Bill Putnam Sr., who built a bunch of recording studios in the 1950s in Los Angeles and other big media parts of the US. This book goes into a lot of details about Putnam's work in the early recording studios:

http://www.amazon.com/Temples-Sound-Ins ... 0811833941

You are right about the low frequencies in these reverbs - not a lot there. I wonder if this was EQ, or if a smaller speaker was used for the reverb chambers.

It is also interesting to have artificial reverb added to a vocal that has a lot of presence due to the proximity effect. A really quiet vocal, with the sort of intimacy that comes from having a condenser or ribbon microphone within a few inches of the singer, has one set of aural cues, that suggest a certain distance from the listener. Reverb on a vocal suggests far different distance cues. Combining the two creates a somewhat paradoxical sound, that we are probably used to after 50+ years of hearing this sound on record, but it is still interesting to think about. The Julie London track you linked to is a great example of this.

Sean Costello

[gavriloP]

Yep, I thought that they are real chambers. I have to say that the arrangements of that era combined with this kind of "big" vocals are really something: my living room hifi system that has 80s KEF reference series speakers and old Sony ES amp really make these shine. They beat every modern vocal recording in my books! With this system, I mean. Talk about ear candy, well more like ear honey I have to say that if someone would make that kind of vintage mono chamber plugin (or even VR preset ) I would be one happy man! I have made few convolution models out of capitol record's echo chamber blue prints, but it just isn't the same (convos never are). BTW I know this isn't about VR or such products but what would be ideal way to use it as a mono verb? Should I just use left OR right output exclusively or perhaps sum?

[valhallasound]

Yep, I thought that they are real chambers. I have to say that the arrangements of that era combined with this kind of "big" vocals are really something: my living room hifi system that has 80s KEF reference series speakers and old Sony ES amp really make these shine. They beat every modern vocal recording in my books! With this system, I mean. Talk about ear candy, well more like ear honey I have to say that if someone would make that kind of vintage mono chamber plugin (or even VR preset ) I would be one happy man! I have made few convolution models out of capitol record's echo chamber blue prints, but it just isn't the same (convos never are). BTW I know this isn't about VR or such products but what would be ideal way to use it as a mono verb? Should I just use left OR right output exclusively or perhaps sum?

I'll answer this in the VRoom thread - keeping this conversation Valhalla-free (and spin free in general).

Sean Costello

[valhallasound]

I have made few convolution models out of capitol record's echo chamber blue prints, but it just isn't the same (convos never are).

I've never thought about that before - creating convolution impulses of chambers via a 3D model and raytracing. What program did you use for the convolution modeling?

Sean Costello

[gavriloP]

I have made few convolution models out of capitol record's echo chamber blue prints, but it just isn't the same (convos never are).

I've never thought about that before - creating convolution impulses of chambers via a 3D model and raytracing. What program did you use for the convolution modeling?

Sean Costello

I just used the free version of Voxengo's impulse modeller. It works ok but there is that static feeling that I always get with impulses... Also that modeller is only 2D (then again, so were the blueprints).

[valhallasound]

The Stautner/Puckette reverb from the 1984 Computer Music Journal. This was the first reverb that I realized in code (using Csound) that sounded decent. I wasn't able to fully translate things from the original Music 11 code, as that code had the ability to *write* delay taps into various locations, as opposed to *reading* delay taps out of various locations (the latter is far more common in Music-N languages). Still, the basic FDN sounded lush, with nice random modulation.

I coded the Stautner/Puckette reverb into a Csound orchestra in the summer of 1999, that also emulated the phased string ensemble sounds of Jean Michel Jarre. Here's the only surviving snippet (that probably took 15 minutes to render on my ancient machine back then):

http://soundcloud.com/seancostello/stringphaser

The Csound orchestra was adapted into a VSTi by Big Tick, the Cheeze Machine, complete with the simple reverb design. A 4-delay line FDN will have VERY grainy initial attacks, but works great on sounds with very slow fade ins like a string ensemble.

Sean Costello

[metalifuxx]

I don't have any Strymon effects and have yet to try them personally, but they just sound awesome, especially being guitar oriented. Well you can connect them in stereo to anything too...

You get tremolo as well, with switchable order


Although the lust for the Blue Sky pedal has gone down since that Swimmer vst effect was released. Even though it would still be cool to have in a guitar pedal.


And this Malekko spring reverb pedal that was just demoed made me want a spring reverb now, even though I have never been a spring verb enthusiast. Or maybe it was just Andy playing Wind Cries Mary that made me want it. It was scary how much that sounded like the original recording.


Watch them at 720 HD Quality for best audio (if anyone doesn't know that by now)

[valhallasound]

I don't have any Strymon effects and have yet to try them personally, but they just sound awesome, especially being guitar oriented. Well you can connect them in stereo to anything too...

You get tremolo as well, with switchable order

That pedal sounds pretty nice. I like the harmonic tremolo a lot, even though the photocell tremolo is more to my liking. As far as the reverbs, the spring and 70s plate sound good to my ears (the 70s plate seems like it is based on the EMT250). The hall sounds OK, but the topology shown in the video isn't exactly a "classic" hall.

Although the lust for the Blue Sky pedal has gone down since that Swimmer vst effect was released. Even though it would still be cool to have in a guitar pedal.

I've tried the Blue Sky in the store. I gotta admit, I prefer Swimmmer.

And this Malekko spring reverb pedal that was just demoed made me want a spring reverb now, even though I have never been a spring verb enthusiast. Or maybe it was just Andy playing Wind Cries Mary that made me want it. It was scary how much that sounded like the original recording.

WTF is up with pedal manufacturers and Oregon? Man, I gotta see what is going on down there. It looks like there is a pedal renaissance in the Portland area.

My guess is that the Malekko is using the Spin Semiconductor FV-1 chip, as I've seen a reverse reverb out there for the Z-DSP coded by Malekko. I wonder if they coded the spring themselves, or if they used the code from Frank at Oct Distribution (who sells a module based around the FV-1).

Sean Costello

[toitoi]

This awesome thread should become one of the Kvr classics.

[Bronto Scorpio]

This awesome thread should become one of the Kvr classics.

This thread is the new industry standard (Sorry....I couldn't resist any longer )

Cheers
Dennis