Will Synthedit ever go 64 bit?

[Karmacomposer]

now is a great time for you to pick up the SE SDK and make some modules
it's not fun, but you won't regret it

I don't program in c++.

Mike

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Since I only use SE for private tools, and am still using a 32-bit host it's not such a problem for me right now.

However, I do worry about the future development of it if the 3rd party support doesn't run with the 64bit version, and it seems they won't unless some newer developers enter the scene with the kind of bang that CK, EVM & DH did for 32bit SE.

For that reason I've been toying with delving into Reaktor or some other modular environment to ensure the tools I make now and come to rely on will still work in a few years time with whatever host I'm using (assuming I do end up on a 64bit one - not a certainty by any means, although there are *some* advantages).

In the meantime SE 1.2 32bit is still working well enough for me to keep on with it for now.

Oh...and my C++ programming is nowhere near proficient enough for DSP programming. The learning curve for that would kill far too much time for me.

[fluffy_little_something]

By the time SE goes 64, we will start to use 128-bit systems

Maybe the solution will come from DAW makers if they build reliable bridges into their products.

Unfortunately almost all of my favorite software synths are SE

I like the Memorymoon stuff, Phonec, and most of all Superwave's ancient Professional, which can produce some rather good sounds thanks to its specific architecture. I would really miss that synth. I don't have any other synth that gives me that quality with so little CPU usage and at that low price
But the developer has told me he no longer updates them except for superficial maintenance stuff or bugs...

[The_Hidden_Goose]

Yes...Phonec is my most used vsti at the moment...perhaps along with ACE.

If my host suddenly stopped accepting that tomorrow I would be seriously miffed!

So right now the negatives are outweighing the positives for going 64bit host for me.

I worry that a sea-change might be coming though, with Apple deciding not to have 32-bit Logic X. Sometimes the technology moves on whether it's better or not, and we all end up having to let go of that branch and letting the current take us...(although sometimes an unsolicited shakeup can be good, creatively).

[Fortune]

Both current SE versions 32 and 64 Bit are still in Alpha state with the 64 bit version being still very rudimentary.
But the main crux with the 64Bit version is that it will be lacking tons of modules which can not be ported to 64Bit as some devs have 'disappeared' (really like KDL) and some have no interest in porting which is understandable as they have abandoned SE since more or less long for several reasons esp. as of the slow pace of progress.
So in order to do the same level of more sophisticated products as with the latest stable 32Bit version this will take even more time for 64Bit.
Yes, SE 64bit stable and fully featured will be there one day, but far too late for most professional oriented devs. That's why I've abadoned SE recently.

But what makes the situation somewhat more awkward is there is already a promising system based on IPlug by Cockos. Already supporting Win & Mac VSt, Mac Au etc. / 32 and 64 Bit. It even does not involve any license fees even if used for commercial purposes. The 'only' thing lacking is some kind of superstructure modular dev environment to do top notch plugins with the ease of SE but without the various drawbacks and bottlenecks of SE.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=9524
here a page with example plugins:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122276

So here is room and a good chance for someone or sometwo to earn not only merits

[antto]

now is a great time for you to pick up the SE SDK and make some modules
it's not fun, but you won't regret it

I don't program in c++.

Mike

ehm, sorry Karmacomposer, that wasn't directed specifically at you, i said it in general
i had to learn C++ even tho i hated that idea, and C++ hated me (i think it still does)
but it's worth it at the end
that's the strength of SE.. you can code modules (using a very decent language) when they are needed

[fluffy_little_something]

Some of those user interfaces look very professional

And how does iPlug work? I mean, are there also oscillators, filters, envelopes etc. that you can connect? Is it more or less abstract than SE?

Deciding on a new environment must be a tough decision for developers...

[osiris]

It lost me when the new version came out and old stuff wouldn't work on it - which meant everything I'd been working on had to be rebuilt from scratch. Game over.

[antto]

yes, i couldn't jump from 1.0x to 1.1x as well, just bad timing

Fortune: IMO "professional oriented devs" should really consider taking a step further and pick up the SE_SDK
i am familiar with the SE_SDK2 (the old one) and i know some of the new things in SDK3, i was drooling at some of them, so i have an idea of what you can do with it.. it's powerful, much nicer than SDK2..
you mentioned IPlug .. yes i'm just making my first steps with IPlug at the moment.. well.. if you know how i miss the modularness (and WYSIWYG) of SE GUI controls, damn
you can't beat that.. in code, building a GUI is a pain.. it's definately not fun
oh well..

[ccDuckett]

HG Fortune has said he will no longer be developing in SynthEdit;
*edit: I just noticed he's posted in this thread while I've been typing
and though there are frustrations with some SE plugs not being supported/
updated any longer, and/or not working whiled bridged in a 64-bit host
(as an example, Novaflash's UNIWAVE V2: perfectly happy with a 32-bit host,
attempts to load as bridged within a 64-bit host leads to crashing/hanging),
if a plugin is important enough to me, I'll go through a bit of host-juggling/
rendering etc. to get what I need. Maybe not the smoothest workflow, but
it's a judgement call.

Sometimes people forget that developers are human beings, and might not
necessarily have the same level of enthusiasm or free time for, say, a 5-year-old freeware project that some user just stumbled across yesterday... people change careers, get married, become ill, join religious cults, etc.

Perhaps the troubles with SynthEdit will prompt a new generation of clever
and energetic programmers to breathe new life into the basic concept- yet,
with the stigma historically attached to SE/SM-based plugins, and the popularity
of working within already-established proprietary environments like Reaktor
or M4L (as well as the growth of more "modular" apps like Bidule, Usine, etc.),
I'm not sure that many would warm to the prospect.

Ah, well- time to go through the plugins folder and weed out all those "looked
interesting at the time, but never actually use/doesn't really work" plugs

[Ichad.c]

Yeah, SE64bit will come - my bet is kx77free a.k.a Xavier will be the first to release a 64bit SE plug - he's been working hard to convert all his modules from SDK2 to SDK3, also building compiler templates for the community. I'll also add some 64bit dsp modules to the mix.

As for SE in itself - some might say the updates are slow, but atleast SE is evolving - not like others that get abandoned after a couple of years. Jeff should be commended for his hard work and dedication, not to mention the indirect influence of SE on the digital audio community as a whole.

Andrew

[antto]

yes.. i don't think i would have poked my nose into a serious language (C++) if it wasn't because i just needed some weird custom modules
i owe that to SE

while there are indeed more new Modular DAWs coming to existance, SE is something of a different breed.. it's where you put together whole synth in a modular (visual programming) fashion, which can go down to C++ and even raw asm
it has given life to so many synths and effects, doesn't matter if they were great or not, the experience is important
trying out an idea in SE is fast, that's a very important part of the developement which isn't so obvious at first thought

[Karmacomposer]

now is a great time for you to pick up the SE SDK and make some modules
it's not fun, but you won't regret it

I don't program in c++.

Mike

ehm, sorry Karmacomposer, that wasn't directed specifically at you, i said it in general
i had to learn C++ even tho i hated that idea, and C++ hated me (i think it still does)
but it's worth it at the end
that's the strength of SE.. you can code modules (using a very decent language) when they are needed

If I learned c++ and could actually program in it, I would use what Fortune mentioned above and not SE. I kinda give up on SE - the snail pace that it's developed in is just too slow for me.

Mike

[Karmacomposer]

Both current SE versions 32 and 64 Bit are still in Alpha state with the 64 bit version being still very rudimentary.
But the main crux with the 64Bit version is that it will be lacking tons of modules which can not be ported to 64Bit as some devs have 'disappeared' (really like KDL) and some have no interest in porting which is understandable as they have abandoned SE since more or less long for several reasons esp. as of the slow pace of progress.
So in order to do the same level of more sophisticated products as with the latest stable 32Bit version this will take even more time for 64Bit.
Yes, SE 64bit stable and fully featured will be there one day, but far too late for most professional oriented devs. That's why I've abadoned SE recently.

But what makes the situation somewhat more awkward is there is already a promising system based on IPlug by Cockos. Already supporting Win & Mac VSt, Mac Au etc. / 32 and 64 Bit. It even does not involve any license fees even if used for commercial purposes. The 'only' thing lacking is some kind of superstructure modular dev environment to do top notch plugins with the ease of SE but without the various drawbacks and bottlenecks of SE.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=9524
here a page with example plugins:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122276

So here is room and a good chance for someone or sometwo to earn not only merits

I wonder if iPlug can be used with languages that can use c++ headers, like Pure Basic? I can program in Pure Basic.

Mike

[fluffy_little_something]

Another problem might be that there already are zillions of plugins out there. Very few people have really new ideas, which doesn't surprise me. In the future new synths will probably be more about sound improvements, but SE has not been leading in that area for quite some time and I doubt that will change. Actually, the difference between SE and proprietary developments will likely get even bigger, I mean, who is to write those 0df filter and other top-notch modules for SE?