KVR Audio

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:01 am

Was listening loud on headphones for a bit, now my hearing is muffled. It's not permanent right? Anyone?

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:34 am

IMO- it's not permanent,
though you have damaged the little hairs that are your hearing(which cease working throughout long life).
I have had tinnitus after gigs and this muffling if leaving music on when sleeping that is too loud and has high frequency content.
Damage is done, but the highs will come back IMO.
More similar episodes mean you will lose ur hearing earlier in age.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:49 am

It doesn't make sense to use that much volume in most cases. You should find that if your hearing is stable and in good condition a low volume in fact has far higher resolution than a high volume.

Our ears are best tuned for speech levels and most people don't regularly have conversations involving yelling as loudly as possible directly into each others ear.

Of course there are issues like ambient noise and noise from the amp, but it is better to find solutions to those problems other than turning up the volume.

It is very similar to our vision system. You should have noticed that it takes at least fifteen minutes for your eyes to adjust to darker conditions and that to 'fully' adjust it requires a much longer more gradual adjustment. The times involved are different of course but the same gradual adjustments happen to over-all sensitivity as well as high/mid/low, filtering for ambient noise and so on.

I find there is a significant difference if you unplug your ears too... especially in the winter with central heating the wax can build up quite a lot. Using a little room temperature hydrogen peroxide and a warm cloth can make quite a difference.

I believe the hearing loss is caused by swelling, so an ASA, ibuprofen or naproxen might help.

Best possible listening conditions in my opinion are long periods of limited exposure, minimal ambient noise and low to medium levels. Anything you can easily hear coming from headphones from the next room is most likely too loud.

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:31 am

The doc said to not take ibuprofen or aspirin actually, something about being toxic to the ear's nerves.
He did mention it was most likely caused by an inflammation response to the loud SPL levels and my ears' inability to keep tense after a bit of time, letting in a higher SPL.
I looked at some pictures, and the actual part of the ear that does the hearing is very small compared to the rest of the structures. That kinda puts high SPLs in perspective.
Funnily, I use EQ on my DAW's master out to correct the bass response (boost) of my cans, and I had it off when I felt my ears go. I was really enjoying what I was listening to

Now I am wearing some ear mufflers I made myself out of acoustic foam, and having a fruit smoothie for the antioxidants, which according to this page helps prevent hearing loss http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_fatigue
But any hi frequency stimulation causes the muffling to come back, so no music for a little while

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:18 pm

I don't think it will all come back
This is really sad day

My hearing was so brilliant all the way to 22k! Now it's more like 18k.
Not a huge difference, but noticeable, strange part is my ears still hurt.
How long is this gonna be?

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:52 pm

I have a ton of wax in the right ear... sounds like a 3db LPF at about 12khz.

I just switch the headphones around to make sure things sound ok. If you yawn and open up your jaws as much as possible, you can also increase the amount of noise coming in.

xalama qo · Post by **xalama qo** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:59 pm

K, not sure if you're being entirely serious with your post, but I'll bite anyway. I recently visited an 'ear-guy' and there's a post here about it.

According to him, the muffled hearing you experience after a loud concert for instance is caused by the ear's self-protection system which actually makes the little hairs inside the cochlea curl up a bit so they won't vibrate so much.
After the noise has gone, they uncurl, and hearing returns to normal.

Having this kind of ear torture for extended periods, such as working in loud factories 24/7 will cause the hair follicles to break in time... and that's when you're buggered cos they don't grow back again.

I doubt your hearing is permanently damaged, but it sounds like you're playing with fire, so rather be careful in future. Also, nobody hears up to 22kHz unless they're a freak of nature... the standard consensus on human hearing range is 20Hz to 20kHz. Some damping between 20k and 18k really should be negligible. I also wonder how you've arrived at that conclusion? What test did you use, and how was it calibrated? If you blast a sine wave loud enough and sweep it up to 20kHz ANYONE could hear it if it was loud enough! The dogs and bats might fall over dead, but just blasting a super high frequency into your ear doesn't really prove anything, and will most likely cause damage, if not immediately, then with repeated ill-advised 'testing'.

So your test needs to be a tried and tested formula, similar to what an audiologist would use. When done properly, it will reveal a measurable tapering off of perceived volume at the higher and lower ends of the hearing range.

My advice: Give your ears a complete rest for at least a week. Don't try to be a bat, and just listen to normal musical ranges at quieter levels in future.
Don't d*ck around with your hearing... when it's gone it's gone.

cron · Post by **cron** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Get your ears checked. Could well be wax. I've had wax issues that came to a head following extremely loud sound exposure twice now. Straight from great hearing to a muffled world with nothing in between. Maybe something causes it to move around during incredibly loud exposure, I don't know. Worth getting it checked though. I also had some mild pain from the wax irritating my ear the second time, which could explain why they still hurt.

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:03 pm

cron wrote:Get your ears checked. Could well be wax. I've had wax issues that came to a head following extremely loud sound exposure twice now. Straight from great hearing to a muffled world with nothing in between. Maybe something causes it to move around during incredibly loud exposure, I don't know. Worth getting it checked though. I also had some mild pain from the wax irritating my ear the second time, which could explain why they still hurt.

+1

Also sticking your finger, or some object in your ear may not hurt immediately, but can start really hurting later in the day... for various reasons

blob 59 · Post by **blob 59** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:07 pm

camsr wrote:I don't think it will all come back
This is really sad day
My hearing was so brilliant all the way to 22k! Now it's more like 18k.
Not a huge difference, but noticeable, strange part is my ears still hurt.
How long is this gonna be?

Time will tell. Maybe this will act as a warning to anyone tempted to monitor or listen at high volumes. The ear is a really delicate structure, and it has to be treated as such.

I dragged a pal to a sound system soundclash a couple of decades back. He declined my offer of cootton wool which I habitually used after finding the percussive transients too painful. Later i tried over the counter ear plugs, now investing in custom moulded ones with an even frequency response. My enjoyment with even cotton wool was not spoiled as the SPLs meant the music was as much felt as heard. Sadly my pal's hearing was harmed, and he has tinnitus to this day.

I feel ear protection is an essential precaution for anyone attending clubs or live music. The ear has a compression system so we do not notice harmful volume at the time, but the damage is done.

As for OP, so sorry to learn of another music fan having hearing problems, you have my sympathy. hopefully you will soon enjoy music once more.

To others: please turn it down. If you claim to need 'club volumes' to monitor use decent ear plugs, you will feel the music the same. And rest your ears regularly during sessions.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:51 pm

blob 59 wrote:Time will tell. Maybe this will act as a warning to anyone tempted to monitor or listen at high volumes. The ear is a really delicate structure, and it has to be treated as such.

+1 You don't know what you got until it's gone

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:02 pm

I'm shocked how loud some guys and gals are listening to music...

I never had a problem (regarding music) with my ears, I'm listening to music maybe between 60 to 80 dB, rarely up to 100 dB, but never as loud as an airplane!

I HATE it how loud the music is at funfairs, at every fun ride the music is louder than a whole construction site. And then they use speakers that are made for at least 30 dB less, so everything sounds distorted as hell!

tropicalontour · Post by **tropicalontour** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:12 pm

The older you get, the more your high frequencies DO NOT come back. Be careful out there, youngsters. Nothing more tragic than a musician that cannot hear anymore.

SODDI · Post by **SODDI** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:16 pm

Headphones can be dangerous. Limit their use and limit their volume.

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:51 pm

xalama qo wrote:nobody hears up to 22kHz unless they're a freak of nature... the standard consensus on human hearing range is 20Hz to 20kHz. Some damping between 20k and 18k really should be negligible.

No, really, last time I got an ear exam I exceeded the abilities of 20khz test equipment. It might have been distortion, who knows. I could hear the sweet 20khz breath just fine, now it's gone. Too early to tell if it will come back.

acute HF hearing loss?