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memyselfandus · Post by **memyselfandus** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Why is there no Zebra 2 RE yet?

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:50 pm

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344994

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:53 am

I suspect there are a lot of developers still on the fence over RE due to SDK 1.x limitations at the moment. I think Synapse had the right approach with Antidote by creating a unique instrument specifically for the Reason rack instead of attempting to do a 1:1 port of an already existing synth. Hopefully this past year has been a learning experience for Propellerhead and the format will be improved.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:22 am

memyselfandus wrote:Why is there no Zebra 2 RE yet?

Because it can't be done and because the process is tedious.

We might do more effects but instruments are a complete no-go in terms of time vs. return.

That said, we've already invested a few thousand bucks in creating a Satin GUI for RE - it requires 3D modeling and proprietary scripting not necessary for other formats. We yet have to see if the actual code compiles, and if it goes through PH's acceptance tests. Things is, this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us.

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:05 pm

Sorry to hear about that Urs. As is so often the case, things are rarely as easy as they're made out to be in the advertising.

There was much talk about DSP code, but very little said about interface design challenges. Your effort is appreciated though and hopefully handsomely rewarded when it finally rolls out.

ambientium · Post by **ambientium** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:28 am

Urs wrote:this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us.

How about business Urs? I personally bought both VST and RE versions of Uhbik and belived that Uhbik RE was huge success. How much does your current REs affect your business? From your post it seems that I was wrong and REs are no big deal from the business point of view, right? I don't want you to reveal numbers just some vague description... Thanks in advance.

L.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:10 am

ambientium wrote:
Urs wrote:this is so expensive and tedious with a bunch of vague things to look out for, Satin RE is our last shot to make RE work for us.
How about business Urs? I personally bought both VST and RE versions of Uhbik and belived that Uhbik RE was huge success. How much does your current REs affect your business? From your post it seems that I was wrong and REs are no big deal from the business point of view, right? I don't want you to reveal numbers just some vague description... Thanks in advance.

L.

The very first RE (Uhbik-A) started out great. From then on each of our REs sold less and less, and each basically stopped selling immediately once the introduction offer had passed by. The current RE sales amount to about a quarter of our Uhbik sales. That's not bad at all.

Our problem however is that once we invested the effort to get a working RE, we need to upload some stuff onto their server and from then on we're at the mercy of Propellerhead's server and approval guidelines. This has been draining, e.g. we couldn't get Runciter approved for weeks due to a bug/flaw/whatsoever on their system. Each time the process fails, we get cryptic error messages for only the first single problem. We then need to deploy our psychic powers to figure out why it works on our system but not on theirs. Then we upload the next attempt and wait for the next error. Between uploading and being notified of an error in the approval process, a week or two can pass by.

It is a process with unpredictable timelines. For that reason RE development can only work as a "on the side process" for us. Whenever a new step is due, we need to make time for the next step to happen.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:51 pm

Indeed it seems tedious to pass their quality control. I am puzzled if it's working on your side why plug isn't good for them. Oh well..

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:21 am

I know this alien approach to interface design has been a headache for VST developers and probably slowed down RE adoption, but it makes me wonder why Propellerhead took that approach in the first place. Is there anything potentially positive about it? With the advent of "retina" class displays and 4K resolution on the horizon, could 3D modeled interfaces actually be beneficial in some way by allowing for infinite rescalability as future operating systems become more and more resolution independent? There was a goofy Propellerhead blog post sometime last year where everyone in the office started nicknaming Reason "pencil Reason" because of how ridiculously small the rack and mixer looked on the Retina Macbook Pro laptop screens. By 3D modeling all the interfaces, couldn't that help future proof Reason from huge leaps in screen resolution over the next 5 years without needing to repeatedly redraw all of the UI elements as bitmap graphics?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:26 am

Yes, I guess that is what it is about. Propellerhead can re-render the UI of an RE anytime they see fit. If Reason one day gets inflated, there's no work on the side of the RE developer required. This in part is how they guarantee that any RE available today will be available forever.

geronimo · Post by **geronimo** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:36 am

Urs wrote:Our problem however is that once we invested the effort to get a working RE, we need to upload some stuff onto their server and from then on we're at the mercy of Propellerhead's server and approval guidelines. This has been draining, e.g. we couldn't get Runciter approved for weeks due to a bug/flaw/whatsoever on their system. Each time the process fails, we get cryptic error messages for only the first single problem. We then need to deploy our psychic powers to figure out why it works on our system but not on theirs. Then we upload the next attempt and wait for the next error. Between uploading and being notified of an error in the approval process, a week or two can pass by.

I remember that was Runciter long to appear: it is frightening because we do not suspect anything around these problems !

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:49 am

geronimo wrote:I remember that was Runciter long to appear: it is frightening because we do not suspect anything around these problems !

Well, it's the downside of having a system that leaves nothing to chance on the user side. It's a really good thing for you, but it's a bit of a drag for us. I do think though that they could improve on the process, a lot.