Is there anything in the Melda plugin world that can act like a simple Envelope Follower controlling a VCA's gain (no compression) where the key can be a VST3 sidechain source? I described the specs for such a plugin here.
If not, please consider it a suggestion. It seems to me something that would be fairly trivial to do compared to many of the other plugins in the Melda repertoire.
Thanks!
Envelope Follower -> VCA with VST3 Sidechain?
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14325 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
I checked your description, but I don't really understand it. What you describe is probably a generalized gain processor with side-chain, which could mean absolutely anything. From a few examples - compressor, expander, gate, ducker...
Initially I thought you mean this:
http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/ ... AutoVolume
but I'm just guessing here really.
Initially I thought you mean this:
http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/ ... AutoVolume
but I'm just guessing here really.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1895 posts since 13 Oct, 2002
Actually MAutoVolume pretty much covers what I need but it does half the trick: I'd need it to reduce gain as well, so the Range control would have to have the equivalent range in -dBs. Actually a wider range over the Speed (slower) would be nice as well. But I understand these are not part of this plugin's spec. (Please consider these official FRs anyway... 
)
It really comes down to simplicity of purpose: sometimes all that's needed is simple gain adjustment with reference to another signal. The fact that a plugin like MAutoVolume even exists shows that there is merit in simple gain riding. All I'm looking to do is expand a little on the concept. Thanks!
) It really comes down to simplicity of purpose: sometimes all that's needed is simple gain adjustment with reference to another signal. The fact that a plugin like MAutoVolume even exists shows that there is merit in simple gain riding. All I'm looking to do is expand a little on the concept. Thanks!
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14325 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Actually I think the "level down" mode should be there or will be there. But there's a catch - it's not really obvious, but there relationships between signals are quite more complicated, not like you say "simple gain adjustment". Compressors are so-to-speak simple, this is not really.
When you want to match signal with level A to signal with level B, it's not such a big deal, just apply gain of B-A. But what does it mean to decrease level by B? It means that when B is going up, A should be going down. From where? How quickly?... See, not that simple.
When you want to match signal with level A to signal with level B, it's not such a big deal, just apply gain of B-A. But what does it mean to decrease level by B? It means that when B is going up, A should be going down. From where? How quickly?... See, not that simple
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1895 posts since 13 Oct, 2002
OK. You're matching gains at 1:1. A + (B-A)MeldaProduction wrote:When you want to match signal with level A to signal with level B, it's not such a big deal, just apply gain of B-A.
It means inverting the gain difference: A - (B-A); yes, this introduces more latency...MeldaProduction wrote:But what does it mean to decrease level by B?
QED.MeldaProduction wrote:It means that when B is going up, A should be going down.
From the A level reference, same as when matching gain. There would have to be a FS limit of course. But maybe it might also make sense in some uses to optionally alter gain from a fixed FS reference instead of from the current A level...MeldaProduction wrote:From where?
I'd say that's a refinement: from "As quickly as can be done without distortion" to "as slow as is practical in-use". This is is in the same category as a multiplier that could be used to scale the gain difference.MeldaProduction wrote:How quickly?...
Am I missing something? Is there something wrong with my thinking?MeldaProduction wrote:See, not that simple
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MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122
- KVRAF
- 14325 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Well, I'm afraid your thinking is really simplified indeed 
. The formula I gave you is also simplified, but it makes the point. Let's say we are talking in linear units (which we are not), then A + (B-A) would really make it A as loud as B. But A - (B-A)? You put in silence (B=0), and you end up with 2*A. So you make it 0.5*(A - (B-A)), that would do the trick, but where's the point, you just created a downwards side-chain compressor! MAutoVolume has a different detector, not a classical attack/release detector used in compressors, but otherwise there's no real difference .
The whole trouble is that "+" is commutative, while "-" isn't. So despite these 2 equations look equally simple, they are not. To subtract something, you need to know from what, so a "threshold". Then you need to know how quickly, thus "ratio". And there you have the compressor again.
And I'll explain from yet another perspective, more natural one, the one you should have thought of in the first place! Audio! If you have 2 signals and know their loudness, then it's pretty easy to make one loud as the other, you do it yourself by watching meters or using your ears. But if you want something to go down according to the other, what does it mean? That when B gets above -80dB, the A should be silent? Or should it be -40dB? Or just gain down by each dB above -100dB? Why 100dB? I could go on, but I think I made the point.
. The formula I gave you is also simplified, but it makes the point. Let's say we are talking in linear units (which we are not), then A + (B-A) would really make it A as loud as B. But A - (B-A)? You put in silence (B=0), and you end up with 2*A. So you make it 0.5*(A - (B-A)), that would do the trick, but where's the point, you just created a downwards side-chain compressor! MAutoVolume has a different detector, not a classical attack/release detector used in compressors, but otherwise there's no real difference . The whole trouble is that "+" is commutative, while "-" isn't. So despite these 2 equations look equally simple, they are not. To subtract something, you need to know from what, so a "threshold". Then you need to know how quickly, thus "ratio". And there you have the compressor again
.And I'll explain from yet another perspective, more natural one, the one you should have thought of in the first place! Audio! If you have 2 signals and know their loudness, then it's pretty easy to make one loud as the other, you do it yourself by watching meters or using your ears. But if you want something to go down according to the other, what does it mean? That when B gets above -80dB, the A should be silent? Or should it be -40dB? Or just gain down by each dB above -100dB? Why 100dB? I could go on, but I think I made the point
.