Mackie and Ableton?

[christianmusicmaker]

Without knowing how many mackoids are working on development - it is not inconceivable that Tracktion development is still an entirely one man show, the chnaces of Tracktion being able to keep pace with Live4, and even keep ahead of Podium are hard to guess. Assuming Jules is still the main coding input though, it is unlikely that Tracktion will hold up well against Live4.

Maybe Jules does not even want it to keep pace as such.Although the expectations for T2 are so high now that most people like me really think it will at least rival Live 4...only Jules knows I guess.

Tracktion's main advantage is still price.

If T2 fixes everything that is currently not quite finished in T1, adds hardware controller support, and incorporates a decent commercial time stretch algorithm then the budget Cubasis market sequencers are in a lot of trouble. Is Live does the damage higher up in the market that it's starting to sound like it might do, then there are going ot be some worried sequencer companies out there.

Unless Mackie surprise us all price should always be in Tracktions favour.

I agree with the budget sequencer theory...with the right adjustments and features in T2 it will probably be no contest.

I also think Live 4 has already caused major shockwaves through the Sequencer landscape and that the big boys are surely concerned.

Who would bother spending £500 on something when they can get the same features for less.Of course many will still use the big packages out there (why not if thats your preference) but the Cakewalks and Steinbergs will hopefully rethink Cubase SX3 and Sonar 4 now.

... im real excited about live4 since it may well make my recent purchase of fl-studio a little redundant

Image line will be concerned about Live 4 as well I'm sure.

... if live4s pattern sequencers for MIDI work as well as live3s audio capabilities then even the soft studio devs (fl / orion / P5 / even reason / etc) might be feeling their palms starting to sweat too (although they will obviously still have a price edge - anyone fancy a slimmed down cheaper version of live4 though ??? )

this is going to be a MIGHTY interesting few months ...

slainte rob

A slimmed down version may emerge but I doubt it.Yes it is going to be very interesting indeed over the next few months.What will the big boys do now?

Live4 definately raised my eyebrow. Those additional features are pretty hardcore... and the idea of processing midi in a fashion similar to the audio sounds pretty tempting. The pattern editor sounds sick too! I'll definately be checking it out without question.

They really caught my attention just like the first time I tried out the Tracktion demo...amazed!

In any case, I could see building certain arrangement with Live.. then rendering everything into tracktion for some serious editing, tweaks, and what not...

They certainly work together very well.They may not be a better combination.

if anything, I think eXT is more of a threat to Tracktion than anything else. It's getting an large number of new features weekly, it's pretty damn stable, it has a modular environment, you can compose in a clip based fashion (even automation! ), and if you are clever, you can compose midi with it LIVE (right now) and it's $40 cheaper.

I was very close to buying either ERA or Energy XT as they are both highly recommended and many on KVR use Tracktion and Energy XT but Live 4 has put the breaks on that! For now anyway...

Live is software for doing live sets and always will be. Therefore it will always compromise certain things to maintain the 'live set' focus. I think Live is good in the studio for coming up with ideas quickly, but it's not so great for composing full songs from beginning to end like Tracktion is.

Live 3 does have a complete arranger and a Live view. The arranger is exactly like Tracktion, Sonar or Cubase in terms of basic functions.This aspect of Live gets very little mention in any publicity for the program but takes up the first 15+ pages or so of the Live 3 manual and works very well.

Oh and btw, as a programmer, I have seen people that are capable of creating software at 5-10x the speed of other developers. Just because Ableton is a big(ger) company and has more people programming, it doesn't mean that there isn't a genius dev out there that could program circles around a team of so-so or even decent coders. A lot of human inefficiencies are eliminated when you don't have to collaborate on a project.

True... and I have a feeling that Jorgen (Energy XT) and our very own Julian Storer would agree with you.

I feel a strong relationship to Tracktion, but this made some serious considerations for me.

But I see the points over here, I might get bouth Live 4 and T2...

But from a Mac laptop perspective, this is simply awsome!!!

I think alot of people will get both...

[d2]

These kinds of threads make it clear to me that the following features should be consided standard on every audio/midi recording program:

• ReWire, MASTER & SLAVE
• MIDI Clock, MASTER & SLAVE
• MIDI Time Code, MASTER & SLAVE

[christianmusicmaker]

You know, I'm starting to get jealous of all these other sequencers getting updates. L4, Logic, Ext (ofcourse), Cubase, they've all had updates lately. Wheres our update ?

I never worked with Live or even tryed the demo. But L4 looks pretty awsome on paper. I might have to try it and see what all the fuss is about.

Try the demo...I was astonished when I first used it. I got a copy of Live Delta that came with M - Audio Firewire Audiophile.It had a ten track limit but was fully functional. I tossed some loops into knocked the tempo down a bit from 130 and sat back in amazement! It somehow sounded as if all the loops had been recorded together perfectly!

I then got Live3 the full version, and currently rewire it into Tracktion. Although as a rewire slave and master I have even used it as a full on arranger like Trackiton as it has a left to right arranger view as well, and simply rewired Vsampler, Project 5,FL studio and anything else straight into it for midi work...great.

I just found the 4 sends a bit limiting but it has now been doubled to 8 I think. I use very few sends anyway.

think everyone needs to remember Live4 is more than 5 times Tracktion's price. They can't really be fairly compared. That said, I think Tracktion would still be my choice for sketching quick 'notes' etc no matter how cool any other app may be. It is just the most intuitive DAW I've found that still retains a pro level of features.

True the price comparison is wrong for sure but their features are very similar...credit to Tracktion really.

These kinds of threads make it clear to me that the following features should be consided standard on every audio/midi recording program:
ReWire, MASTER & SLAVE

MIDI Clock, MASTER & SLAVE

MIDI Time Code, MASTER & SLAVE

The rewire slave / master combo is soooooooooo useful.I think only FL studio (correct me if I am wrong) has this as well.

[AD80]

I just found the 4 sends a bit limiting but it has now been doubled to 8 I think.

Tracktion has a low send limit too if you count rack latency. I can only put 3 send-racks after each other before the latency gets too noticeable. Mod's magical senderella is a great workaround but still.

[AD80]

You know, maybe Jules should wait for the L4 dust to settle before releasing T2. All eyes will be on L4 when it drops. Everybody I know is already talking about it.

[Sleepwalker]

I think everyone needs to remember Live4 is more than 5 times Tracktion's price. They can't really be fairly compared. That said, I think Tracktion would still be my choice for sketching quick 'notes' etc no matter how cool any other app may be. It is just the most intuitive DAW I've found that still retains a pro level of features.

Live is clearly a Live tool, and now more clear then ever, it looks to fullfill all my live playing and jaming wishes. Ive tested bouth live 2 and 3, but it was far from what i needed, and I felt it was aiming strongly towards techno/dance 4x4 looping arangements! Tho I loved the interface, the feeling of the groove was realy limited, and the fact that midi and vstis was not includet, made it simple to avoid. Now finaly I can get my hands dirty with it! wheres Tracktion is moore an arangement tool, I dont see any reason for they taking customers from each other. Remember that in Live 3 most computers could not handle moore then 8 tracks at the same time, in T im usualy between 20-30, with no problems, on a 4200rpm disk!! One of the reasons I went for Tracktion, is because it had the same kind of interface as Live.

[valley]

I can only put 3 send-racks after each other before the latency gets too noticeable. Mod's magical senderella is a great workaround but still.

That is a critical problem for me too.

[valley]

Oh and btw, as a programmer, I have seen people that are capable of creating software at 5-10x the speed of other developers. Just because Ableton is a big(ger) company and has more people programming, it doesn't mean that there isn't a genius dev out there that could program circles around a team of so-so or even decent coders. A lot of human inefficiencies are eliminated when you don't have to collaborate on a project.

Within reason yes. But one person cannot be sales, support, public relations, and development and hope to stay ahead of the game. Also our hypothetical coder still needs to take holidays from time to time.

Jules is a fast developer, there is no arguing thatt, but given the rate of development on Live, I think it's clear their coders are highly productive also. Steinberg's rate of development seems on the other hand to be not so greate right now, but then they also have a huge head start.

[strav100]

I think Jules has been working on T2 for a while - maybe 1.5 was as far as he could go comfortably without extensive rewrites of the code. T2, I think, will all be re-written from the ground up - and will be MUCH better than T1 with tons of new features - it will blow Cubase and Sonar out of the game. If he is a fast developer - then maybe he has thought what he hasn't done well in T1 and perhaps released the rack filters in 1.5 to shut us all up while he's working on his magnum opus of computer code

[dten]

Mackie was going to package both Tracktion and a lite version of Live with its Spike USB audio interface.

Spike has been "coming soon" for several months.

Live just announced a new version that will directly compete with Tracktion.

Could there be a relationship between these things?
Could Live bully Tracktion out of the Spike package?
Has that been the holdup for shipping Spike?
Could this weaken Mackie's support of Tracktion and disrupt work on Tracktion v2?

Hmm. Speculation runs amok.

[ModuLR]

I will reserve any further speculation until I can actually play with the beta. Regardless, I can guarantee one thing... Ableton is about to make a shitload of cash! because the hype surrounding this is bigger than anything I've seen in recent years.

[amoebe]

T2, I think, will all be re-written from the ground up - and will be MUCH better than T1 with tons of new features - it will blow Cubase and Sonar out of the game.

Yeah, right. How realistic can you get.

Keep dreaming.

edit
Not to be too negative about it. But with exectations this high, people are bound to be disappointed.
/edit

[christianmusicmaker]

You know, maybe Jules should wait for the L4 dust to settle before releasing T2. All eyes will be on L4 when it drops. Everybody I know is already talking about it.

Agreed, Live is too hot at the moment. T2 may not even be ready till after the summer anyway.

T2, I think, will all be re-written from the ground up - and will be MUCH better than T1 with tons of new features - it will blow Cubase and Sonar out of the game.

Alot of people including myself are hoping for just that.To be honest it has come pretty close already

Mackie was going to package both Tracktion and a lite version of Live with its Spike USB audio interface.

Spike has been "coming soon" for several months.

Live just announced a new version that will directly compete with Tracktion.

Could there be a relationship between these things?
Could Live bully Tracktion out of the Spike package?
Has that been the holdup for shipping Spike?
Could this weaken Mackie's support of Tracktion and disrupt work on Tracktion v2?

dten...I had completely forgot about Live's inclusion in the Mackie Spike! Good question...will Live 4 evena cut down version rival Tracktion on the same hardware? Tracktion was advertised as the main software product which clearly Mackie saw as a rival to the Mbox the prices are almost identical.

As for weakening the support for Tracktion I doubt it.But I think so much hangs on the success of Tracktion 2. Before the Live 4 spec release, everyone (most anyway) pretty much had to make do with using various applications to achieve everything they need.

Live 4 has surely changed that.

I would imagine Logic Pro users came the closest to not needing to do that. But now that Live 4 has set their stall out I think every developer and distributor like Steinberg and Mackie will at the very least rethink a few things now.

[soulata]

I hope T2 turns out great, if not - I'll just keep T1 alongside Live4 (if that works as promised).

- T1 is still the most user friendly program for tracking - the only sequncer I can let my friends record me playing

think abort and restart - wow

K

(p.s.: grid for audio tracks & loop recording (audio) in T2 and I'm set)

[bobaudio]

think abort and restart - wow

Yeah, just don't hit that button on accident.