KVR Audio

The Drop · Post by **The Drop** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:51 pm

Outdoorverb is the only thing that comes to mind. Not sure where I found it though.

Ah_Dziz · Post by **Ah_Dziz** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:22 pm

fmr wrote:
Ah_Dziz wrote:altiverb comes with a pretty amazing array of IRs including lots of outdoor spaces. Including some forests. I'm not sure if it includes a forest clearing by a lake though. If you could get back to that place you could capture an impulse response with a field recorder.

JJ
+1 - Altiverb is the first choice, IMO. Too bad they still didn't relese version 7 for Windows.

Yeah I'm pretty amazed they haven't released this update for PC yet. Luckily the 32 bit version has worked flawlessly in every bridge I've tried it in.

Kevin63101 · Post by **Kevin63101** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:43 pm

cnt wrote:I want to emulate a certain sound that I heard when I was outdoors at a lake - surrounded by trees. I made a clap with my hands.

I have "outdoor" type models in Aether and Sony Sound Forge Acoustic mirror (IR), but never used them for instruments. Curious -- what are you planning to use this for? FX, dialogue, ambient sounds (eg adding realism to sampled crickets and hand claps)?

I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on a good application for instrumental tracks.

toddhisattva · Post by **toddhisattva** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:32 pm

elassi wrote:This lake scenario sounds very interesting.

But how would one avoid singing birds or chirping crickets (for example)?

By using a frighteningly loud sine sweep to shut 'em up!

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:53 pm

lol

inspiration..

the area NW of tucson is very flat with occasional hills/rocks jutting out spaced very far apart, say 10 miles from one hill to another. like an 80 mile wide pinball table for sound.

i was settin' on one of these hills when a rancher on the other side fired their rifle.

there were pauses of several seconds (..10 seconds??) between what would comparatively be "near reflections" ... level cliff 30 miles north.. t60 was at least a minute.. the ground doesn't have much diffusion (saguaros).

so.. i kinda think i know what you're talking about

PFozz · Post by **PFozz** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:03 am

sqigls wrote:i like EAReverb for my natural 'outdoor' verbs, not sure if it would be suitable for what you're talking about? Worth a demo though, it's a great verb! + the dev is a gem of a bloke

Many thanks, sqigls!
"Gem of a bloke" has been added to my personal English expression dictionnary.
I like it!

Freaqpeak · Post by **Freaqpeak** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:41 pm

The Drop wrote:Outdoorverb is the only thing that comes to mind. Not sure where I found it though.

Cool, will check it out when I get back home.
( http://www.xoxos.net/vst/outdoorverb.zip )

Sparky77 · Post by **Sparky77** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:03 am

Kevin63101 wrote:
cnt wrote:I want to emulate a certain sound that I heard when I was outdoors at a lake - surrounded by trees. I made a clap with my hands.
I have "outdoor" type models in Aether and Sony Sound Forge Acoustic mirror (IR), but never used them for instruments. Curious -- what are you planning to use this for? FX, dialogue, ambient sounds (eg adding realism to sampled crickets and hand claps)?

I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on a good application for instrumental tracks.

I think both Aether and B2 could be good choices to design this type of reverb.
This would be a good challenge in listening, try to design the space and environment.

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:17 am

Convolution would be a good solution for this type of reverb, if you can find (or generate) a good impulse.

Most rooms can be modeled as a feedback system. A sound bounces off of a wall, this bounces off of another wall, this bounces off of another wall, and so on. The listener hears the original sound, as well as all the bounces that happen to intersect with the listener. The room gets filled up pretty quickly with bounces. Having a bunch of delay lines with feedback is a pretty fair approximation of all these bounces.

A forest is different. A sound bounces off of a tree, and back to the listener. A sound bounces off of a different tree, and doesn't come back to the listener. It bounces off some other tree in the distance, where the echo that comes back to the listener is really faint. The odds that a sound will bounce off of one tree, to another tree, and back to the listener are fairly low, and the odds get lower and lower with every order of reflections. A forest is a sparse environment. Instead of filling up with reflections like an enclosed room, the reflections will spread out in a wider and wider area, until they finally die away.

Modeling a forest would best be approximated with a feedforward system. Each tree is modeled as a cluster of tight reflections, which can be read out of a delay line. None of the reflections get fed back into the input. This gets really expensive to calculate in real time. Convolution is a good way of calculating a feedforward reverb as cheaply as possible, while still having a lot of detail.

Sean Costello

xoxos · Post by **xoxos** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:02 pm

that's how i did outdoorverb, three tiers of delay.

though the architecture is simple it's alright, at least for the kind of outdoor areas i have (desert, lots of rock and sparse veg = less dispersion, more discrete reflections). it denormals. i'd like to have better air transmission filtering for this kind of item.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:17 am

cnt wrote:I want to emulate a certain sound that I heard when I was outdoors at a lake - surrounded by trees. I made a clap with my hands. The response was absolutely amazing to my ears. Multiple echoes with character of "smudgy" highpassed reverb on top.

why not take snapshot /=record IRs/ on the same place...using gunshot method /easy/ or sinesweep+deconvolution method /not so easy but better quality if best equipment is used to play sweeps/
but be aware that obtained IRs from such big and noisy space will be far from hi-fi sounding - mostly usable only as a demo for creating better quality virtual IRs via some auralisation software /something like Voxengo IM/

Brookwood · Post by **Brookwood** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:24 pm

Somehow, outdoor IRs seem to lack that je ne sais quois of the spaces they represent, and I too went searching for an outdoor IR space that felt right. I had satisfying resullts using a certain richochet sample and truncating the front, as some convolution reverbs allow you to do, to allow mostly later reflections. I used the richochet effect here:
http://www.controlcentral.info/#!skill/c1539
It's a Youtube example of the Game of Thrones Facebook "Skill" game.
Not exactly the sound you were looking for in your post, but, to me, pretty convincing outdoor sword clanks. Without the IRs the hits were as dry as a mummy fart.
One of my favorite reverb presets in the old days was Yamaha's SPX series "ER 2" early reflection algo set to a large size ~ 15/20, and a high damping. You got a huge sense of space, but mainly from the long delay/ reflections, not the reverb smear. Without the HF damping it sounded more like a randomized ping-pong delay, so you are (were) on the right track with the long initial delay. But I digress...
Good luck in your quest for verisimilitude!

PFozz · Post by **PFozz** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:33 am

Nice work, Brookwood!

I'm currently working on a new thing and using it to build an audio-only "forest scene" was very tempting.

Here is my first attempt:
http://www.eareckon.com/music/Forest_Po ... Test_A.mp3
Well... obviously, some animals do not belong to this environment

Involved effects are 100% algorithmic here.

reverb/echoes for complex outdoor areas (forests, lakes, and such)?