Mux Synth Beast - a crazy day of exploration

[AndreasD]

Finally i got the pitch_mapper downloaded.
I see what you mean, but i have the same answer as before. It's up to you predict and set the limits.

If, in your pitch_mapper.mux, you add pitchbend and the LFO, the added result is clipped at the set min/max values (here 1200 cents) at the input of a module.

If you do not map the pitchbend but use the PB Range in the osc, you are running different modulation paths. Hence the pitchbend and LFO will add to more than the set Pitch Range.

[Taron]

Hey, THANKS, Andy, it's been a while!
Yeah, I obviously had realized the trouble with the modulation paths, but believe there's a real flaw in having it that way, you know. I have my temporary solution, but you couldn't really force it like that on the open market, I'm afraid. One of those rare cases where it gets too inelegant, really.
Yes, sure, we're all funky enough to figure out cool workarounds, but most people wouldn't bother, while the rest of it is so darn cool and easy that it would get most people to start playing with the modular stuff.

I'm using Jo's latest version right now...Hm, it'll get a little iffy now in the middle of what feels like a potentially bigger transition to the next official release. But here's a quick patch with my work-around trick on the pitch bending.

You'll see that I do exactly what I've been describing above. Check the Instruments Modular area -> options - Midi Mapping to see where pitch and modwheel go!

If the zipped project doesn't load, you'll have to take Jo's latest temp build!
http://www.mutools.com/forsythia/

As for hooking 127 waveforms into the multiform sources.... ...but if 127 would really map properly to 0-100% from the note conversion it might make remapping a little clearer. Right now it's just...eh...fishing desperately on my part, haha.

[MuTools]

OK, I have ONE problem...
(see attached mux patch!)

Situation Setup:
- Oscillator Pitch is MIDI mapped
- LFO feeds into Oscillator pitch

Situation Action:
- use the pitch bend and you will hear that the LFO and pitch are combined and clipped at the maximum pitch range.

I understand some level of reasoning behind it, but it's totally impractical as far as I can tell. I expect the lfo to vibrate the current given frequency by a given amount. If I alter the current frequency, the lfo should vibrate on top of that. Pitch bending should alter the frequency just like playing another note! It normally does that, too, but not if you've midi mapped it!

First of all: It's working as intended, i don't see a bug there.
Here is how it works:
A modulation signal is a value that is added to the parameter value. There are some exceptions where the modulation signal multiplies the parameter value, for example Gain parameters, but so that's not relevant here. In your patch, when you push the pitch bend all up, the pitch parameter is at its max, and so there is no room anymore to add extra modulation, as the sum of parameter value and modulation is clipped to 100% max. Solution: Make parameter value headroom. Set the pitch range to 2400 as that will be your real max coming from 1200 from pitch bend + 1200 from LFO, similar for the negative side. Then set the Pitch bend to range -1200 to 1200 and the LFO to 50%. Solved, it does exactly what you want in a quite simple way. Attached an example that demonstrates this.

[Taron]

Ah, done that already, Jo, but thanks for writing it down again! See my formula above a few posts!

I just don't understand the point for that logic in regard to pitch, you know. It's almost as if a special effect choice trumps the run-of-the-mill desired usage of it. When would anyone want the pitch bend to push all modulations of pitch to a rim?

Anyway, at least I figured it out and I could explain it, but I'd rather hold back before making that a topic, hehe...just seems...a bit too garage to me, if you know what I mean. And I swear I don't mean that arrogantly, but worrying. I want to present this thing with total confidence! Don't want to start off a demonstration by saying: "Some things may puzzle you, but there are solutions I can explain!" (slight edit!)

[Taron]

Sorry, I had to eat dinner...

My real original problem was not the midi mapping value stuff, but the fact that mapping pitch bend to any parameter would automatically turn it off from the oscillator pitch without anyone asking for it. That's what bothered me, you know.

I'd much rather beg for a way to manually turn of pitch bending from the oscillators, then the other way around. It's like: I'd much rather ask for magic then having to ask for black magic to stop, hahaha.

[Taron]

I kinda feel bad now.
I really hope, I didn't get you angry or frustrated there, Jo.

Just know that I'm sincerely looking out for you there as good as I can. I really don't need any of this, so there's no pressure. But today this voice stuff turned out quite exciting, even if it's not all there, yet. It does make me hungry for more. If I had just a hair more control, I just know I could pull of a staggeringly exciting vocal synth at ridiculously small size. We could show Kontakt how it's done!

Then strings... then what ever else at unheard of nature.

[MuTools]

My real original problem was not the midi mapping value stuff, but the fact that mapping pitch bend to any parameter would automatically turn it off from the oscillator pitch without anyone asking for it.

If you're mapping pitchbend to control a parameter, then you 're asking to use the pitchbend as a controller. The pitchbend events are then translated into the mapped parameters. And as with the other controller mappings, the source controller (or pitchbend) does not travel further anymore as it is processed by the parameter map.

[Taron]

I realize that that happens, but find it unfortunate and see possibility for improvement there.

Oscillators even have explicit PB range besides the pitch range, making it extremely easy on the interface, because nothing has to change there. If someone wouldn't want traditional pitch, he could just enter 0 at PB range and be done with it.

I would consider never to hijack the pitchbend from the oscillators. That's all.