Vaz Modular

[wagtunes]

Given how long that thing has been around, half a year is not much.

And it would indeed be a bit unfair if he gave away his software for free now, especially the expensive modular one. He might give the two entry versions away for free, who knows. I am interested in the middle version myself...

And when you feel like others are ruining your business, you might feel a bit pissed and thus become stubborn. Why would you give away the product of a lot of hard work for free just because others change the rules and conditions? That would probably provoke a stubborn attitude in me as well.

I would even offer to pay whatever the VAT difference is so that he doesn't lose any money on the sale.

See, this is what I don't understand about this whole situation. The new VAT laws only make the cost of sale higher but don't completely eliminate the profit. Isn't it better to make some money than shut down your business completely? That's the part that makes no sense to me. If it were me, I'd deal with it. At least I'd still be earning an income.

[whyterabbyt]

Who says it won't be sold anymore? The developer closed up shop in January. I wrote to him personally and surprisingly he wrote back.

This was his exact response to me as I kept the email.

Hi Steven,

Dealing with anti-virus claiming software is viral/malicious is a game of whack-a-mole where some of the holes have cages over them... but as there is also a problem with the 1st Jan change to UK/EU VAT law making selling through Paypal unviable I don't see any point in spending any time on this. If the "machine" wants old software dead so be it.

Martin

We are now into June and you still can't purchase it. What evidence do you have that this isn't going to become yet another Alchemy that anybody who wants it now is just out of luck?

I have no more evidence of what will happen in the future than you do, which was my point. At this point Martin doesnt intend to put any effort into it. Your assumption is that this is permanent, but he doesnt say that.
If you want to post a correspondence with him that says this decision is irrevocable permanenent, then go ahead, i'll accept that.

The difference is, Martin hasn't sold the company. The synth is still his to do with as he pleases. He can sell it, he can make it a free synth. He can do whatever he wants.

Yes he can.

Personally, I don't see the point of this synth just sitting on a shelf for eternity. Many developers make their synths available for free. Why would it be so terrible for Martin to do the same if he apparently refuses to sell it any longer?

Personally, I dont see why he should, unless he feels that removing all his options and potentially antagonising people who legitimately paid for the software is a good idea.

If there's a single reason for the tedious refrain 'Its not on sale so it should be free' which isnt basically selfishness ('I want it so give it to me') then feel free to explain it.

This refrain happens all the time when developers cease trading or stop developing products. Its always interesting when those who never actually supported that developer think their sense of self-entitlement to something they didnt want enough to buy when it was on sale should be prioritised.

Again, where is your evidence that this is going to change when Martin pretty much all but told me that he's done?

Its in the same place as your evidence that its not going to change, because all Martin has actually done in his reply to you is confirm what people already knew; that he is currently not selling it.

You do get that a statement of 'I have done X because of Y' is not the same as 'I will never stop doing X even if I can solve Y', dont you?

[wagtunes]

Who says it won't be sold anymore? The developer closed up shop in January. I wrote to him personally and surprisingly he wrote back.

This was his exact response to me as I kept the email.

Hi Steven,

Dealing with anti-virus claiming software is viral/malicious is a game of whack-a-mole where some of the holes have cages over them... but as there is also a problem with the 1st Jan change to UK/EU VAT law making selling through Paypal unviable I don't see any point in spending any time on this. If the "machine" wants old software dead so be it.

Martin

We are now into June and you still can't purchase it. What evidence do you have that this isn't going to become yet another Alchemy that anybody who wants it now is just out of luck?

I have no more evidence of what will happen in the future than you do, which was my point. At this point Martin doesnt intend to put any effort into it. Your assumption is that this is permanent, but he doesnt say that.
If you want to post a correspondence with him that says this decision is irrevocable permanenent, then go ahead, i'll accept that.

The difference is, Martin hasn't sold the company. The synth is still his to do with as he pleases. He can sell it, he can make it a free synth. He can do whatever he wants.

Yes he can.

Personally, I don't see the point of this synth just sitting on a shelf for eternity. Many developers make their synths available for free. Why would it be so terrible for Martin to do the same if he apparently refuses to sell it any longer?

Personally, I dont see why he should, unless he feels that removing all his options and potentially antagonising people who legitimately paid for the software is a good idea.

If there's a single reason for the tedious refrain 'Its not on sale so it should be free' which isnt basically selfishness ('I want it so give it to me') then feel free to explain it.

Again, where is your evidence that this is going to change when Martin pretty much all but told me that he's done?

Its in the same place as your evidence that its not going to change, because all Martin has actually done in his reply to you is confirm what people already knew; that he is currently not selling it.

You do get that a statement of 'I have done X because of Y' is not the same as 'I will never stop doing X even if I can solve Y', dont you?

Fine. I am going to write to him again and ask him point blank if he ever intends to sell this synth again. I know what the answer is going to be. It's going to be that he will when the VAT laws change back to what they were or make it profitable for me to sell the synth again.

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't know the new rules in detail, but the problem might be complexity and time/effort, not profits as such.

Although he said it was for personal/health reasons, the guy from WOK also stopped selling his stuff. Maybe the VAT changes also played a role there...

[do_androids_dream]

See, this is what I don't understand about this whole situation. The new VAT laws only make the cost of sale higher but don't completely eliminate the profit. Isn't it better to make some money than shut down your business completely? That's the part that makes no sense to me. If it were me, I'd deal with it. At least I'd still be earning an income.

Well, you could at least try to understand the situation. The issue with the new laws is that it now makes charging VAT an absolute nightmare (if not impossible task) for some small businesses - and the risk of getting it even the slightest bit wrong is great - you could end up heavily prosecuted. Because of this 1000's of small businesses have taken the safer option - get out while they still can.

Now, if this situation was suddenly put upon your business I'm sure that giving away your hard work for free wouldn't be among your first thoughts (if someone was badgering me to take advantage of my ill fortune to get a freebie I wouldn't be best pleased).

[fluffy_little_something]

See, this is what I don't understand about this whole situation. The new VAT laws only make the cost of sale higher but don't completely eliminate the profit. Isn't it better to make some money than shut down your business completely? That's the part that makes no sense to me. If it were me, I'd deal with it. At least I'd still be earning an income.

Well, you could at least try to understand the situation. The issue with the new laws is that it now makes charging VAT an absolute nightmare (if not impossible task) for some small businesses - and the risk of getting it even the slightest bit wrong is great - you could end up heavily prosecuted. Because of this 1000's of small businesses have taken the safer option - get out while they still can.

Now, if this situation was suddenly put upon your business I'm sure that giving away your hard work for free wouldn't be among your first thoughts (if someone was badgering me to take advantage of my ill fortune to get a freebie I wouldn't be best pleased either).

That is why I hope your country will be clever enough to leave the EU while it still can It is mostly run by morons, I'm afraid...

[do_androids_dream]

See, this is what I don't understand about this whole situation. The new VAT laws only make the cost of sale higher but don't completely eliminate the profit. Isn't it better to make some money than shut down your business completely? That's the part that makes no sense to me. If it were me, I'd deal with it. At least I'd still be earning an income.

Well, you could at least try to understand the situation. The issue with the new laws is that it now makes charging VAT an absolute nightmare (if not impossible task) for some small businesses - and the risk of getting it even the slightest bit wrong is great - you could end up heavily prosecuted. Because of this 1000's of small businesses have taken the safer option - get out while they still can.

Now, if this situation was suddenly put upon your business I'm sure that giving away your hard work for free wouldn't be among your first thoughts (if someone was badgering me to take advantage of my ill fortune to get a freebie I wouldn't be best pleased either).

That is why I hope your country will be clever enough to leave the EU while it still can It is mostly run by morons, I'm afraid...

Well I don't agree with that just because of one VAT change (and by the way this is not just an EU thing - this is the start of global change in terms of taxation). There are 1000's of EU laws that stop greedy and corrupt capitalist governments from fully exploiting people. If it weren't for the EU we wouldn't be enjoying the general standard of living we now have in the UK. Many people are not educated enough to even begin to understand exactly what the EU is and exactly what it does. They are, in fact, one of the few forms of protection that the majority of people here have against their own government - and the majority of those people don't even realise it. They prefer to listen to propoganda on the goggle box every evening.

But that's for another time, place, thread etc

[wagtunes]

See, this is what I don't understand about this whole situation. The new VAT laws only make the cost of sale higher but don't completely eliminate the profit. Isn't it better to make some money than shut down your business completely? That's the part that makes no sense to me. If it were me, I'd deal with it. At least I'd still be earning an income.

Well, you could at least try to understand the situation. The issue with the new laws is that it now makes charging VAT an absolute nightmare (if not impossible task) for some small businesses - and the risk of getting it even the slightest bit wrong is great - you could end up heavily prosecuted. Because of this 1000's of small businesses have taken the safer option - get out while they still can.

Now, if this situation was suddenly put upon your business I'm sure that giving away your hard work for free wouldn't be among your first thoughts (if someone was badgering me to take advantage of my ill fortune to get a freebie I wouldn't be best pleased).

Everything you say makes perfect sense except for one thing which obviously must not be the case.

If your livelihood depends on selling whatever it is you're selling, you find a way to sell it. So obviously his livelihood does not depend on selling this synth. I mean if it did, how is he surviving all these months with no income?

If it were me and I didn't need the money to survive (had another job or my wife worked or whatever) and selling my products became a bookkeeping nightmare because of VAT but I still wanted people to have what I created because I didn't want all my hard work to go to waste, yes, I would give it away with the understanding that there would be no more updates and no support.

Many synths started out free and then went paid. Customers could say the same thing. "Why should I pay for this when you used to give it away for free?"

You're never going to make everybody happy. There will always be disappointed customers and prospective customers. I would be willing to pay the VAT for him and even pay him a premium on the sale provided I can at least get the demo to work.

But guess what? I can't even download the demo because of the malicious EXE messages that he also refuses to do anything about. Essentially, he has washed his hands of VAZ Modular.

Like I said, I'll write to him again. I'll ask him all the questions I need to ask and I'll make all the offers I can possibly make in order to purchase this synth. I guarantee you that it will all be for nothing.

[fluffy_little_something]

That's the job of national labor unions.
The EU is mostly the final stage for national politicians that are no longer wanted at home for a good reason. Unlike Washington, Brussels attracts mediocre people, at best. And it shows in many ways, such as the EU's backwardness in IT, programming, Internet access, etc.

[do_androids_dream]

If your livelihood depends on selling whatever it is you're selling, you find a way to sell it. So obviously his livelihood does not depend on selling this synth. I mean if it did, how is he surviving all these months with no income?

I would guess his livelihood does not depend on vaz but many who run businesses that gives them their total income have had to give in, close up and find employment elsewhere. Not everyone is capable of 'finding a way'.

If it were me and I didn't need the money to survive (had another job or my wife worked or whatever) and selling my products became a bookkeeping nightmare because of VAT but I still wanted people to have what I created because I didn't want all my hard work to go to waste, yes, I would give it away with the understanding that there would be no more updates and no support.

With all due respect that's just the way you would do it but not necessarily how others would. Giving away something as complete and brilliant as Vaz Modular would be a major, major decision for any dev as it's very difficult to go back to charging money for it again after that point. If the new laws are suddenly dropped and he wanted to go back to charging for it, it would present a lot of problems. 6 months is really not a long time in the grand scheme of things.

Many synths started out free and then went paid. Customers could say the same thing. "Why should I pay for this when you used to give it away for free?"

That's much more of a natural transition - no one is surprised when someone transitions from hobbyist to professional - that's what's supposed to happen.

You're never going to make everybody happy. There will always be disappointed customers and prospective customers. I would be willing to pay the VAT for him and even pay him a premium on the sale provided I can at least get the demo to work.

It's not about the VAT itself (for most businesses) - it's about the huge amount of headache inducing paperwork/record keeping.

[whyterabbyt]

But guess what? I can't even download the demo because of the malicious EXE messages that he also refuses to do anything about..

well, that's nonsense. you could quite easily use a different browser and/or ignore the messages. Everyone else manages that.

[wagtunes]

But guess what? I can't even download the demo because of the malicious EXE messages that he also refuses to do anything about..

well, that's nonsense. you could quite easily use a different browser and/or ignore the messages. Everyone else manages that.

My browsers actually won't let me download it. Unlike the zip file messages that I get that I am able to ignore, there is no ignore option for EXE's. Believe me, if I could download the demo I would.

[fluffy_little_something]

Which browser do you use?
Chrome does not like certain formats, either, but I can override it...

[wagtunes]

Which browser do you use?
Chrome does not like certain formats, either, but I can override it...

I've tried. I can't. Maybe I'm an idiot. Doesn't matter what the reason is. I can't download the file.

Oh, and one other thing for rabbit. I don't except the "sometimes there is no option" argument. You can get VAT software that will do all this for you for as little as $9.95. You want something more robust? You're talking $100 tops.

Plus, you need to be earning a minimum of 77 thousand pounds yearly in order to be required to even do this. If he's making that much money, why in God's name would he trash a business that profitable over something relatively minor? It makes no sense to me at all.

[do_androids_dream]

Plus, you need to be earning a minimum of 77 thousand pounds yearly in order to be required to even do this. If he's making that much money, why in God's name would he trash a business that profitable over something relatively minor? It makes no sense to me at all.

Unless something has changed since the last time I looked at it that's wrong. It applies to any earnings now for digital businesses.