Rethinking of the browser????
-
- KVRAF
- 3161 posts since 28 Mar, 2008 from a Galaxy S7 far far away
Hey, I prefer the option to change font but I don't really mind if it doesn't happen. I realise the situation jo is in perfectly, I was giving an opinion that's all, no offence meant.
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Oh yes, good point, I almost forgot: The browser on the side is great and feels very intuitive to me! I hardly used it, but when I did, I felt it was great! 
-
- Banned
- 1132 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
About the browser, I'll re-iterate...It is swell! I browse, find sounds, use sounds, drag & drop sounds...so not quite clear on why the browser needs improvement...but fonts - well hey-
MuLab is struggling with "Font anemia"!
Jo, something clean & clear like Arial or Verdana would work well. Those are like the most straightforward of them all! I'm thinking through-out the whole app, not just menus, etc. Bold to some extent, but not to where it looks silly.
For example, all the buttons on the top of the screen would look much better with a stronger, solid font - more business like & professional. Some people may think this is trivial, but it is not. It is subtle little things like this which could help give MuLab a different "flavour" in the image department, if that makes any sense!
MuLab is struggling with "Font anemia"!
Jo, something clean & clear like Arial or Verdana would work well. Those are like the most straightforward of them all! I'm thinking through-out the whole app, not just menus, etc. Bold to some extent, but not to where it looks silly.
For example, all the buttons on the top of the screen would look much better with a stronger, solid font - more business like & professional. Some people may think this is trivial, but it is not. It is subtle little things like this which could help give MuLab a different "flavour" in the image department, if that makes any sense!
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Where's the smiley that puts his fingers in his ears and goes (LALALALALA...ahlalalalalala)
Oh yes, that's right...smileys don't have ears...duh!
Oh yes, that's right...smileys don't have ears...duh!
-
- KVRAF
- 13865 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
It is Verdana!Grizzellda wrote:MuLab is struggling with "Font anemia"! Jo, something clean & clear like Arial or Verdana would work well.
Not saying so to reject your point, just replying this as info.
I have the impression (because the topic returns from time to time from different users) that there indeed may be room for improvement and yes i agree it can do a big thing wrt impression, look & feel.
Can you pls post a mockup demonstrating your view.For example, all the buttons on the top of the screen would look much better with a stronger, solid font - more business like & professional.
-
- KVRist
- 374 posts since 13 Sep, 2011 from UK
Just re-visiting my post, it does sound like a bit of a rant and the tone is a bit off. Apologies. The main point of what I was trying to say is that there could be a danger of making a change that a lot of people don't want based on one or two people requesting it. Regarding fonts, if some people are having difficulty, then the option to change it would make sense. Hardcoding it to comic sans serif might upset one or twosl23 wrote:Hey, I prefer the option to change font but I don't really mind if it doesn't happen. I realise the situation jo is in perfectly, I was giving an opinion that's all, no offence meant.
. I've made suggestions myself which others have disagreed with, so I can see this from both sides of the fence.-
- Banned
- 1132 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
Hello everyone, I just wanna say something here...
I think maybe some of you thought that my statements regarding fonts amounted to a "rant". I can assure you guys that Grizzellda does not "rant". Ranting is not why I joined KVR. Simply put, I think that fonts are a very important aspect of relating to a computer program & feel that MuLab could be improved here, that is all! But because MuLab is very usable as is, for many of you it really isn't an issue and I can dig that.
It was mentioned earlier that Jo can't please everybody ... Look, I started out on a 4-Track cassette deck! This modern software is huge and I won't complain too much!
I joined KVR so I could talk to people about all this stuff and also talk to the developers, ask them questions, make suggestions, etcetera...
Jo, you asked me for a mock-up of sorts. I'm working on it! I haven't done one before so it will be interesting. I'll get back in a few days if I am making any kind of progress whatsoever!
I think maybe some of you thought that my statements regarding fonts amounted to a "rant". I can assure you guys that Grizzellda does not "rant". Ranting is not why I joined KVR. Simply put, I think that fonts are a very important aspect of relating to a computer program & feel that MuLab could be improved here, that is all! But because MuLab is very usable as is, for many of you it really isn't an issue and I can dig that.
It was mentioned earlier that Jo can't please everybody ... Look, I started out on a 4-Track cassette deck! This modern software is huge and I won't complain too much!
I joined KVR so I could talk to people about all this stuff and also talk to the developers, ask them questions, make suggestions, etcetera...
Jo, you asked me for a mock-up of sorts. I'm working on it! I haven't done one before so it will be interesting. I'll get back in a few days if I am making any kind of progress whatsoever!
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Yeah, sometimes a forum can feel like a tough crowd, but don't worry about that too much. It's important that you feel free to say what you want to say. Harsh feedback can sometimes be very useful, even if it feels uncalled for. In such cases you might've hit a sour spot, you know.
Oddly, despite my reactions, I fully agree that the face of a software is vital for its success, simply for the sake of clarity and a sense of seriousness that should come across.
In case of MuLab, though, I personally don't feel there to be a problem now. I haven't investigated it, yet, but the latest version seems to have some more options in regards to fonts.
As Jo was saying, and he can speak of experience like many of us, one cannot account for taste, because a lot of it has to do with personal history, too, where you feel comfortable and so on.
As long as a font can be read properly and doesn't look goofy or cheap, taste must not send a developer to run in circles, you know. But I'm totally certain that Jo is giving his very best to please the widest possible range.
Again, don't worry, as long as feedback is sincere and considered, there's no reason to hold back or get scared off by reactions. Meaning: You're very, very welcome!!! (If I may say so!?)
Oddly, despite my reactions, I fully agree that the face of a software is vital for its success, simply for the sake of clarity and a sense of seriousness that should come across.
In case of MuLab, though, I personally don't feel there to be a problem now. I haven't investigated it, yet, but the latest version seems to have some more options in regards to fonts.
As Jo was saying, and he can speak of experience like many of us, one cannot account for taste, because a lot of it has to do with personal history, too, where you feel comfortable and so on.
As long as a font can be read properly and doesn't look goofy or cheap, taste must not send a developer to run in circles, you know. But I'm totally certain that Jo is giving his very best to please the widest possible range.
Again, don't worry, as long as feedback is sincere and considered, there's no reason to hold back or get scared off by reactions. Meaning: You're very, very welcome!!! (If I may say so!?)
-
- KVRist
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
some people are welcomed here with open arms as if their ideas can do no wrong. others are reminded that they can code their own DAW if they arent satisfied with how things are shaping up... in the most polite way possible of course. rest assured that the development path has already been defined and lack of manpower means that changes are pretty much out of the question. you can suggest stuff all day and may just be thanked for your criticism. <<< the blunt truth
funny thing is that often stuff doesnt simply work for the user (or make sense without demonstration), such that even long timers need to 're-think' things in a way that doesnt stir the pot. whatever you do, mind your politically correct Ps and Qs! dont look at things too close lest you offend someone with the truth lol
i think the biggest road block is the prevailing paradigm and lack of manpower. pretty hard to get round those two! and if youre not a power user thats been here from the start you wont be taken nearly as seriously. you may even be told that the insight you offer is already known to the developer or that your proposed path is flawed somehow or uninformed or redundant etc. but thank you anyway!
if you can get all the blokes in on the idea that you want, then it might happen, but thats the only way and theres too many opinions here hahaha
funny thing is that often stuff doesnt simply work for the user (or make sense without demonstration), such that even long timers need to 're-think' things in a way that doesnt stir the pot. whatever you do, mind your politically correct Ps and Qs! dont look at things too close lest you offend someone with the truth lol
i think the biggest road block is the prevailing paradigm and lack of manpower. pretty hard to get round those two! and if youre not a power user thats been here from the start you wont be taken nearly as seriously. you may even be told that the insight you offer is already known to the developer or that your proposed path is flawed somehow or uninformed or redundant etc. but thank you anyway!
if you can get all the blokes in on the idea that you want, then it might happen, but thats the only way and theres too many opinions here hahaha
ACKCHYUALLY
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
...and on a positive note!
No, honestly, I'm pretty sure it's understood that a new user is actually often a better source of suggestions than a good old power user. Just that "cosmetics" are a shaky subject. Even there, fresh eyes are probably the only way to really judge where things are really at. Power users come from times when cosmetics were the least troubles and are ready to put up with a lot that a new users would be turned off by.
Anyway, I do not think that "manpower" really is such a trouble. Unless there are perfectly tuned members, a team can slow down the progress and clutter up the logic. As a single developer myself, I'm super happy I don't have to wrangle a small crowd, haha. Many of the most exciting tools there are have their origin and their lasting power owed entirely to one developer. All we as users need is patience. Jo is very diligent and keeps track of all suggestions, which is why there's such a big list and often requests are on there already.
Thus far I have to say, he's doing a great job with his priorities and it's always refreshing, when he squeezes in specific requests. A large team would actually make that less possible, believe it or not. They can't just deviate from well formulated plans.
No, honestly, I'm pretty sure it's understood that a new user is actually often a better source of suggestions than a good old power user. Just that "cosmetics" are a shaky subject. Even there, fresh eyes are probably the only way to really judge where things are really at. Power users come from times when cosmetics were the least troubles and are ready to put up with a lot that a new users would be turned off by.
Anyway, I do not think that "manpower" really is such a trouble. Unless there are perfectly tuned members, a team can slow down the progress and clutter up the logic. As a single developer myself, I'm super happy I don't have to wrangle a small crowd, haha. Many of the most exciting tools there are have their origin and their lasting power owed entirely to one developer. All we as users need is patience. Jo is very diligent and keeps track of all suggestions, which is why there's such a big list and often requests are on there already.
Thus far I have to say, he's doing a great job with his priorities and it's always refreshing, when he squeezes in specific requests. A large team would actually make that less possible, believe it or not. They can't just deviate from well formulated plans.
-
- KVRist
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
this is a one man operation so yes manpower is a concern and often is given as a qualifying reason 'why'
specific requests? have you had one put in? arent you THE power user in attendance? i mean you have used mulab to greater effect than anybody else as far as i can see.
and cosmetics suggestions must be a touchy subject here because my own observations were similarly rebuked lol
it all depends on your outlook: if you always wanna smile, this is a great place for you! and smile you should.
specific requests? have you had one put in? arent you THE power user in attendance? i mean you have used mulab to greater effect than anybody else as far as i can see.
and cosmetics suggestions must be a touchy subject here because my own observations were similarly rebuked lol
it all depends on your outlook: if you always wanna smile, this is a great place for you! and smile you should.
ACKCHYUALLY
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
You betcha...I'm a smiley kinda guy! 
Yep, yep, I'm afraid I'm one of them mega-power-users, and it's a habit of mine to really care about great potential when I stumble upon it.
As for manpower, you can keep reading my post again a few times and see, if you get my point after all.
Point being: MuLab rocks big time, not 'despite' being developed by one man, but most probably because it is!
Try making a request of any kind to any of the big packages and see if you are being heard to begin with and how long it may take for such requests to be taken on-board if at all. I'm willing to bet they have scheduled updates, discussions on what things to consider and so on, probably even long-term development plans.
Jo, the lone-rider, is highly flexible and can release an update when ever he sees fit. He may take a few months of intense development, all the while listening to users and figuring out how best to fit stuff in, if it does fit. Then he can (and I hope he does) take a break to get his strength back and on goes the show again. At least that is how I do it.
With all that he has done and is doing, I'm having twice the reasons to keep smiling happily! ...also with such a faithful and active user core on the forum life has an excellent outlook! 
Yep, yep, I'm afraid I'm one of them mega-power-users, and it's a habit of mine to really care about great potential when I stumble upon it.
As for manpower, you can keep reading my post again a few times and see, if you get my point after all.
Point being: MuLab rocks big time, not 'despite' being developed by one man, but most probably because it is!
Try making a request of any kind to any of the big packages and see if you are being heard to begin with and how long it may take for such requests to be taken on-board if at all. I'm willing to bet they have scheduled updates, discussions on what things to consider and so on, probably even long-term development plans.
Jo, the lone-rider, is highly flexible and can release an update when ever he sees fit. He may take a few months of intense development, all the while listening to users and figuring out how best to fit stuff in, if it does fit. Then he can (and I hope he does) take a break to get his strength back and on goes the show again. At least that is how I do it.
With all that he has done and is doing, I'm having twice the reasons to keep smiling happily!
...also with such a faithful and active user core on the forum life has an excellent outlook! -
- KVRist
- 329 posts since 6 Mar, 2015
personally i think delegation and division of labor could help mutools. who wants to R&D and promote and PR etc etc it just keeps higher cost features out of reach and extends development time. and money isnt as good as it could be! but whatever. it is what it is. and its not what its not. it doesnt change according to whos asking. thats all im saying lol
ACKCHYUALLY
-
- KVRAF
- 3207 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
Yeah, a PR team would be useful for sure, that's a different story. Incidentally that was part of the success recipe of Zbrush, for example, which became massive while still just one man had developed it, but he had an agent and support around it.
-
- Banned
- 1132 posts since 21 Feb, 2015
Guys, I have, for the last while, been sipping beer & enjoying the back & forth comments! Now I would like to contribute, if I may -
Gentlemen, say what you want but here we are in the summer of 2015 and MuLab is a boutique sequencer, and I think it will remain so. In a recent thread solipsvs tried to convince Jo on how to make MuLab more marketable, commercial, etcetera, and my recent ideas regarding fonts were also headed in this direction. But still - I'm not sure what any of this could really amount to.
I'm counting on you guys to correct me if I'm wrong...
Let's just face it and proceed from here, accordingly. MuLab has a unique place in the DAW land! It will not be Pro Tools, Cubase & the others. I feel that the best we can do as users is to keep an open dialogue going with Jo, and make good suggestions that he may (or may not! ) entertain. I'm sure that he has got an initial goal for MuLab (from the start), but is clearly listening to his customers. It is some kind of balancing act, or just a weird soap opera!
So what do you guys say, huh?
Gentlemen, say what you want but here we are in the summer of 2015 and MuLab is a boutique sequencer, and I think it will remain so. In a recent thread solipsvs tried to convince Jo on how to make MuLab more marketable, commercial, etcetera, and my recent ideas regarding fonts were also headed in this direction. But still - I'm not sure what any of this could really amount to.
I'm counting on you guys to correct me if I'm wrong...
Let's just face it and proceed from here, accordingly. MuLab has a unique place in the DAW land! It will not be Pro Tools, Cubase & the others. I feel that the best we can do as users is to keep an open dialogue going with Jo, and make good suggestions that he may (or may not!
) entertain. I'm sure that he has got an initial goal for MuLab (from the start), but is clearly listening to his customers. It is some kind of balancing act, or just a weird soap opera!So what do you guys say, huh?
Last edited by Grizzellda on Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.