KVR Audio

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:33 am

samsam wrote:Serious question (stemming from Kriminal's first reply in the thread)

A synth having presets means it's not considered properly analogue? What's that all about?

Is my Pulse2 analogue or not?

No, it wouldn't be fully analog. The parameters (knobs, CVs, etc) wouldn't be analog, they'd have a digital source. The value of most or all knobs would be stored in digital memory inside the computer section of the synthesizer to be recalled later.

The signal path however may be entirely analog, in which case it is a hybrid digital/analog synthesizer, although not to the degree something like the junos are with their DCOs.

DCOs of course aren't merely "digitally controlled", the proper name should be "digitally clocked oscillator". Rather than containing an analog timing circuit, a DCO is merely a special type of filter which filters digital clock pulses from the computer section of such a synthesizer.

The consequence of a DCO is of course then that there is no drift or sync interference between multiple oscillators. They all remain perfectly in tune and in sync controlled by the digital electronics.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:41 am

Sounds like true analogs are very feature limited and extremely boring synths. No presets, no midi, no digital control of anything, no nothing. They belong in a museum, not in a studio aimed at making music IMO.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:44 am

aciddose wrote:
samsam wrote:Serious question (stemming from Kriminal's first reply in the thread)

A synth having presets means it's not considered properly analogue? What's that all about?

Is my Pulse2 analogue or not?
No, it wouldn't be fully analog. The parameters (knobs, CVs, etc) wouldn't be analog, they'd have a digital source. The value of most or all knobs would be stored in digital memory inside the computer section of the synthesizer to be recalled later.

The signal path however may be entirely analog, in which case it is a hybrid digital/analog synthesizer, although not to the degree something like the junos are with their DCOs.

DCOs of course aren't merely "digitally controlled", the proper name should be "digitally clocked oscillator". Rather than containing an analog timing circuit, a DCO is merely a special type of filter which filters digital clock pulses from the computer section of such a synthesizer.

The consequence of a DCO is of course then that there is no drift or sync interference between multiple oscillators. They all remain perfectly in tune and in sync controlled by the digital electronics.

Thanks for the reply - though it's not got VCOs either. What it has, I believe is an analogue signal path and DCOs

As for analogue enough, it certainly is for me and I love having preset slots too. So I guess I'm a hybrid kind of guy, which is kewl.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:50 am

IncarnateX wrote:Sounds like true analogs are very feature limited and extremely boring synths. No presets, no midi, no digital control of anything, no nothing. They belong in a museum, not in a studio aimed at making music IMO.

Why no MIDI? The core of the synthesizer and parameters can be analog without the controller being analog. Ultimately you're using switches into a resistor network as a keyboard anyway!

So unless you use a ribbon for input the keyboard is always digital in a sense. A key is only ever on or off.

So there is no real difference with MIDI, other than that the latency can be between 533us and more while on an analog the latency is usually 10us to 100us.

Yes, I would say this is entirely possible to feel. I always have played much better on a CV keyboard rather than a MIDI keyboard... although that may be due to the MIDI keyboards having poor quality keys, springs or switches of course. Still, with headphones the audio latency is minimal (few 100s of us at most) while adding a few ms although not perceptible will likely throw off your timing.

For example if the pattern detectors in your brain have a threshold under 1ms, 1ms latency could ruin their response. Ultimately subjective but without a doubt all that matters with an interface is how it feels to you the musician. CV keyboards and fully analog synthesizers have always felt best to me, whether or not that is due to any real world factor or all in my head doesn't matter.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:01 am

IncarnateX wrote:Sounds like true analogs are very feature limited and extremely boring synths. No presets, no midi, no digital control of anything, no nothing. They belong in a museum, not in a studio aimed at making music IMO.

BTW, where are you from?

Here we have something called "live music".

I know this might blow your mind, right? ...but you don't produce it on a computer.

You play something called an instrument and sometimes someone even uses their voice and a microphone.

I know it sounds outrageous but it's for real.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:23 am

Well in that case, good luck with your live music. However, since your true analogs have to be monophonic, I guess it will be outh of the question playing chords then, but who cares, as long as one get that 100% preset free, non-polyphonic, magical VCO sound.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:35 am

Who said they need to be monophonic or preset free?

My point has never changed. You've used the word "analog" incorrectly in making a generalization.

Here, have a lolly.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:49 am

Oh you implied that earlier but I see you changed your post. It was something about a synth not being analog if it had to digitally store presets and in the same line you said something about polyphony, indicating that this was also digitally controlled.

Anyway to me and apparently many others who have been on the analog revival trend, an analog synth is a synth with an analog osc no matter what else is digital, even if they are DCOs and not VCOs. Just look at the DSI anventure. They have analog osc but are otherwise almost as digital as can be. This definition seems to hold for most who have answered this thread, so it is your anal-sadistic definition of analog, which is a problem here, not mine.

And believe it or not, you can actually make live music with digital synthesizers too, so I still can not see what I truly have lost here.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:52 am

aciddose wrote:

BTW: Which one is you?

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:35 am

I did sell off some of my less used synths but found my métier in...tadaaa!! Guitars and FX.....

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:43 am

IncarnateX wrote:And believe it or not, you can actually make live music with digital synthesizers too, so I still can not see what I truly have lost here.

I was replying to your complaint about presets, midi and so on. Those aren't critical for live music, usually you just actually play the keys.

Acid Mitch · Post by **Acid Mitch** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:45 am

"The Mrs let me out the attic,but I had to sell most of my gear so that I can fit into the tiny little space she allows me to have" , doesn't exactly scream "freedom fighter".

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:47 am

@aciddose: With digital synths I can both play the synths live and use them in a midi set up, so that still sounds like a win to me compared to your true analogs

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:43 am

Pure troll from the beginning

KVR Audio

Sold all my analog synths- Insane or Freedom Fighter?

Sold all my analog synths -Insane or Freedom Fighter