KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:17 pm

Teksonik wrote:
KingTuck wrote:
Teksonik wrote:There's a ton of Imageline plugins on the list even Fruity Bass Boost which is about the simplest plugin you can have and to be honest I'm not trusting their software much anymore.
Please man, you got an official response about this. People put on their Sherlock Holmes costumes and worked this info out when it was brought up earlier. Nobody came out finding anything patchy. For your own benefit, don't hold beliefs that don't hold themselves together!

Oh and by default FL sends out your user name and account number every time you render to audio unless you opt out:

You can thrust them if you want......I no longer do. Deal with it..........

I thought reflex broke all those down. What reason is there for you to still not trust them? I mean, not that i would mind who or what you trust in. But it's just that, trust and belief. There's really no rational thing about it.

alvfaria · Post by **alvfaria** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:06 pm

And... Vanguard is gone.

hivkorn · Post by **hivkorn** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:24 pm

officialy dead....Thx Refx remind me to never buy again something from you.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:59 am

You may actually never want to buy any software again from anyone if that's how you feel. (I've always felt this way and rarely ever purchase software.)

There is no such thing as software 100% controlled by a single author. No matter how much you "roll your own" (as I do with my free plugins) there will still be the dependency on the compiler, the OS and so on. For example one day there may be no way to compile binaries compatible with XP anymore without dusting off an old PC with XP + compiler still installed on it.

Could you really blame an author for no longer continuing to support software designed only for XP at that point?

The facts of life are tough unfortunately.

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:27 am

I can understand the sentiment.

It is more 'coming soon' hype followed by the 'just kidding, never being released' song and dance that is deflating and ultimately puts the developer on the blacklist.

It would have been better never to have said anything was coming unless it was closer to actualization. How can this developer be trusted? When you meet a developer that seems solid yet later shows otherwise, it makes me reconsider them entirely.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:33 am

Well they call people like myself "pessimist", that we never get anything done, when we do it isn't "finished" (dude, it's version 7 already!) and so on.

People like me are expected to roll up and die. (Get rid of him, he's depressing!)

So when you have someone optimistic who believes they can achieve their goals and then fails, is it right to blame them?

It seems we're kicked in the face no matter what we do. I get kicked because I'm "negative" about things that are really positive (although people constantly seem to claim they're huge negatives, I'm expected to ignore them?), while it looks like ReFX gets kicked because they were "positive" when it turned out things weren't quite so positive in reality.

In my opinion (of course) my point of view, the "pessimist" one is the correct one. It isn't negative, it's realistic and practical.

I apply the same view to people. People will kick you in the face no matter what you are.

braj · Post by **braj** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:46 am

Ignoring the emotional issues some may have, it isn't very good business practice to announce a product and then never deliver. It doesn't do anything but undermine your brand.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:56 am

That is entirely true, but the source of this damage still comes down to people making a judgement of the person behind the corporation.

Remember that a "corporation" is simply a person or group of persons working together.

I've owned corporations myself!

In fact almost everyone in my family owns their own corporation.

This doesn't suddenly make them "not people" or mean that everything they should do should be to avoid "tarnishing the brand" or so on. Imagine the insane sycophantic world populated by sociopaths we would experience if that were encouraged. (*blink blink*)

Yes, you're right. The fact he announced this and didn't come through was disappointing to customers who expected otherwise.

Disappointing.

Yet where does that leave us? Should he be punished?

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:06 am

Quick google result:
http://www.profitguide.com/manage-grow/ ... rand-81712

People make mistakes, therefore corporations (persons or groups of people) make mistakes.

Naenyn · Post by **Naenyn** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:23 am

The problem I've got with the whole situation is that I made a purchase based on a promise. My own fault for paying for something that isn't out yet, but still it feels like false advertising to me.

From their January 15th 2014 newsletter:

Vanguard2 is on its way! 64-bit and fully backwards-compatible with Vanguard; this is what all of you Vanguard fans have been waiting for! This will be provided, upon release, as a free upgrade for all owners of a Vanguard license.

No release date has been set yet, so keep an eye on our e-mail newsletters for more information as it becomes available!

I had used Vanguard at my mentor's place on his copy of Live. I hadn't bought it yet, because I knew it wouldn't work in Logic. When I got this email, I was so happy I impulsively bought it with the expectation that I'd get a 64-bit Vanguard eventually. Silly me.

Lesson learned.

Ironically, a book I read recently mentioned this very thing:

Caveat Emptor: This resonant phrase is Latin for "let the buyer beware." Things that one should beware of (or at least be aware of) are often called caveats. In the case of a synthesizer or other electronic device, an important caveat is that it's almost always a bad idea to purchase the product based on the manufacturer's promises about features that will be added to the next version of the operating system.

Even major, reputable manufacturers are notoriously optimistic about how quickly they'll be able to finish and release an OS update. Features that are promised "in a few weeks" may not appear for six months, a year, or even longer. In a few heartbreaking cases, products have been orphaned. The promised features never appeared. To avoid this nightmare, it's a good idea to base all of your purchasing decisions on features that are already included in the instrument you'll download or take home from the store. Don't buy promises."

That is from the break-out on page 34 of Jim Aikin's "Power Tools for Synthesizer Programming". Wise words I wish I would have heeded.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:25 am

That is a perfectly valid point as well.

Unfortunately yes, buyer beware. People consider me a pessimist or "completely paranoid" but the fact is this can happen to anyone. Trust no one.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:27 am

Naenyn wrote: I hadn't bought it yet, because I knew it wouldn't work in Logic.

Now you can't buy it anymore, but just saying: Vanguard works well (with 32live) in Logic 10.x (even now with 10.2). Maybe you can get a hold of it when you buy it used.

Naenyn · Post by **Naenyn** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:36 am

deft_bonz wrote:
Naenyn wrote: I hadn't bought it yet, because I knew it wouldn't work in Logic.
Now you can't buy it anymore, but just saying: Vanguard works well (with 32live) in Logic 10.x (even now with 10.2). Maybe you can get a hold of it when you buy it used.

Funny you should mention that... my mentor said the same thing. However, at the time, I couldn't justify the cost of 32Lives ($99) just to use a one $65 synth. Vanguard was pretty nice, but not that nice. Having sold Sylenth because of this problem, I didn't have anything else I wanted to use that was 32-bit.. so it didn't seem worth it to me at the time.

Oh well.. like I said, lesson learned.

frizzbee · Post by **frizzbee** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:27 am

It's not just like they promised to release it and didn't. For me it's more about their whole product policy and customer treatment. They not just discontinued the product, they made it disappear. I can't even download the installer for my purchased software. WITHOUT ANY WARNING. Same thing with their other software than nexus or nexus expansions. They made them just vanish and in their opinion the (complaining) customer is the dumbass... Just 1 single newsletter with "product x is deprecated and will be discontinued at yyyy-mm-dd! back up your software!" would have been enough. Or even an explanation like "we can't release vanguard because of ...". Nothing.

I had to do with the refx support many times. Mike is such a choleric guy and you simply can't ask a single question without make him rage quit. So I'm really afraid asking him about vanguard. But as long as enough customers spend their money on them, companies will never change.

I decided too to never buy something from them again - best decision ever.

stardustmedia · Post by **stardustmedia** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:30 am

frizzbee wrote:It's not just like they promised to release it and didn't. For me it's more about their whole product policy and customer treatment. They not just discontinued the product, they made it disappear. I can't even download the installer for my purchased software. WITHOUT ANY WARNING. Same thing with their other software than nexus or nexus expansions. They made them just vanish and in their opinion the (complaining) customer is the dumbass... Just 1 single newsletter with "product x is deprecated and will be discontinued at yyyy-mm-dd! back up your software!" would have been enough. Or even an explanation like "we can't release vanguard because of ...". Nothing.

Good point. That's actually a no-go. Gladly I save/backup all installers, even multiple versions I keep.

reFX Vanguard 2?