KVR Audio

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:25 pm

Robert Randolph wrote:The GUI looks fine...

It's the User eXperience in Reaper that can be awful, especially if you're new to it, or if you're used to a particularly quick workflow in another software.

Unfortunately a lot of folks confuse the teams GUI/UI/UX. It ruins these opportunities where a legitimate criticisms of Reaper's faults with UX/UI could take place.

Exactly this. The gui is probably one of the best actually, there are great skins out there and you can customize it to your exact specifications. It it in the doing that is rough, but as others have mentioned you can get new menus, edit your menus yourself, if someone really takes the time to set up the app how they like, then nothing about the interface is that bad. It is just getting to that point that can be distracting from other work, I found myself fiddling constantly with everything. Studio One for examples much more straightforward, but then it is much more limited and so less complex. Kind of have take the work necessary to get it working right.

I would really love a series of Reaper mods that got as close to Studio One as possible, but the fact is I could start making it today. It isn't that hard.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:47 pm

no matter how many graphics you stick on top of the Reaper UI, it's still horrible. You can make a lot of it look nice. But you still end up having to use it. That's when it becomes awful.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:04 pm

Subjective. I use it perfectly fine.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:06 pm

Reaper is not ugly.

It is not when compared to, say, oh...Sawstudio.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:09 pm

braj wrote:Exactly this. The gui is probably one of the best actually,

I wouldn't go quite that far, but the graphics are ok and can be customized. But people who have issues with the UI aren't really talking about graphics, but workflow and continuity. A Graphic User Interface isn't just about graphics, it's about how the parts fit together. Every modern daw is "graphic", the interface, but not all of them are subjectively as well "graphically laid out", the parts, etc, etc, not so much the images or color choices.

S1 did really well is in that area. Just about everything is on the main work surface. Reaper, not so much. You have to go get some things that should be on the work surface, like send pans.

Robert Randolph · Post by **Robert Randolph** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:15 pm

trimph1 wrote:Reaper is not ugly.

It is not when compared to, say, oh...Sawstudio.

Hey, SawStudio has skins too!

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:46 pm

Hit quote instead of edit.. again. I'm always fudging doing that..

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:15 am

LawrenceF wrote:S1 did really well is in that area. Just about everything is on the main work surface. Reaper, not so much. You have to go get some things that should be on the work surface, like send pans.

S1 is just awesome in terms of the UI - just great. I'm in the process of migrating to it fully atm as I'm just at the point of no return with Reaper - I sigh and huff and puff my way through every mix because of workflow stuff and that laggy mouse feel it's got . I've customised it to kingdom come in different ways but it can't hide the clunk within. I kind of love Reaper for many reasons but I NEED to move on for my own sanity. It's a shame (for me - not for the users who really get on with it obviously) as it could be the most amazing music production software ever if it had a complete UI redesign.

blueman · Post by **blueman** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:37 am

As a user experience designer, Reaper is exactly the kind of software I reference for what NOT to do

Justin has admitted that he designed it for himself (proving he is a brilliant engineer, not a UI designer). That's fair enough, but for many of us Reaper is not amazing at all because it is unnecessarily difficult to use. The only thing amazing is its potential to be great, currently held back by a cumbersome and clunky user interface (UI).

I understand the nerdy appeal of having a modular UI that you can tweak until the wee hours of the morning. But it will never appeal to people who love simple and elegant solutions. Reaper is fun to use, but eventually frustrating for many of us

braj · Post by **braj** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:40 am

LawrenceF wrote:
braj wrote:Exactly this. The gui is probably one of the best actually,
I wouldn't go quite that far, but the graphics are ok and can be customized. But people who have issues with the UI aren't really talking about graphics, but workflow and continuity. A Graphic User Interface isn't just about graphics, it's about how the parts fit together. Every modern daw is "graphic", the interface, but not all of them are subjectively as well "graphically laid out", the parts, etc, etc, not so much the images or color choices.

S1 did really well is in that area. Just about everything is on the main work surface. Reaper, not so much. You have to go get some things that should be on the work surface, like send pans.

My point is that you can customize it to be great, like I said, that is the hurdle. The very thing that makes it great makes it hard for many to learn. What is that, Reamenus? That helps a lot, and having the toolbars configured the way you like them makes it super fast. But, I just lost my main toolbar, I don't know where it went, the one at the top of the window I customized to sorta mimic s1, just gone. So now I have to redo it. That is the sort of thing that makes it hard for me, it can be frustrating when you don't understand what is wrong. S1 just doesn't do that to me, mostly because it can't, you get what you get with a few options, that is similarly it's strength and it's weakness. I prefer to get on without the head scratching, but some things about Reaper just are so neat. Anyhow, I did give a qualifier. It depends on what you are looking for.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:03 am

braj wrote:My point is that you can customize it to be great, like I said, that is the hurdle. The very thing that makes it great makes it hard for many to learn.

I don't really think there is a 'global' idea of hard vs easy. I found Reaper much easier to get my head around than Pro Tools, Logic and Cubase back when I was deciding upon which software to use. All of the aforementioned just seemed highly convoluted and antiquated in the way they went about things. Before that all I really had experience with was Fruityloops and Reason - both of which I had no problem in understanding quickly.

The customisation in Reaper, as I've recently admitted to myself (after years of telling others how great it is), only goes a very small way to changing the experience. It lets you rearrange menus and put buttons here and there but pretty much nothing above and beyond that - it's still the same experience in terms of how it operates.

dentnile · Post by **dentnile** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:53 pm

Reaper used to be my main DAW. I like it but UX is a mess. Now I use Bitwig and everything is where I think it should be, never had to open the manual because I was stuck looking for how to do something and I don't feel the need to customize anything because it has defaults that makes sense.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:13 pm

re. "Difficult to learn".
Yes my 68 years old mom most probably wouldn't be able to learn and use it on her PC - at least not without me teaching her.

re. "Opening the manual".
Whats the problem ?
When you don't know something, you open the manual or go to the wiki or the forum ONCE, and then you know it and you don't have to open the manual ever again about that something.
Seriously can't you spend 1 friggin day on learning everything you need and will often use ?

re. "UX is a mess".
Only for new users.
Spend a month with it, and Cubase (or whatever other DAW you used before) UX will become a mess.
I am a refugee from the horrible Cubase crashing nightmare, after few years of not using that POS i don't know what is where anymore, so for me it is a mess when i am looking at screenshots of its UI.

dermichl · Post by **dermichl** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:46 pm

my most memorable experience: had to investigate why a midiclip of one bar length would not keep its length when changing tempo (answer was to tick some hidden checkbox to make it work as expected) - end of user experience!

dentnile · Post by **dentnile** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:58 pm

Mutant wrote:re. "Difficult to learn".
Yes my 68 years old mom most probably wouldn't be able to learn and use it on her PC - at least not without me teaching her.

re. "Opening the manual".
Whats the problem ?
When you don't know something, you open the manual or go to the wiki or the forum ONCE, and then you know it and you don't have to open the manual ever again about that something.
Seriously can't you spend 1 friggin day on learning everything you need and will often use ?

re. "UX is a mess".
Only for new users.
Spend a month with it, and Cubase (or whatever other DAW you used before) UX will become a mess.
I am a refugee from the horrible Cubase crashing nightmare, after few years of not using that POS i don't know what is where anymore, so for me it is a mess when i am looking at screenshots of its UI.

I am happy it is the greatest DAW for you. I spent enough time learning Reaper to do anything I want. I used to like tweaking everything, I used to build my own computers from parts and run Linux before it was easy. Now I don't have the time or interest in that anymore. Using a Mac and a simple DAW and could not be happier. Reaper is amazing but it is no longer my main DAW for some reasons.

REAPER is amazing.