REAPER is amazing.

[do_androids_dream]

re. "UX is a mess".
Only for new users.

This is not really what people are talking about when they criticise Reapers UI. It's the fact that it's very disjointed - has a sellotaped or cobbled together feel - without serious consideration of typical usage scenarios. It has duplicated functionality all over the place on both the UI and in the main menus/right click menus. It has all sorts of inconsistency on the docking side of things and various graphical aspects (try double clicking the vertical scroll bar for random zoom levels and 'hiding' the tcp 'above' the arrange window). There's just this sloppy feel to the whole experience. I feel bad saying all this stuff because it's been my main music making environment since 2007 and I love the company behind it.. but it is a bit of a mess generally speaking.

[do_androids_dream]

my most memorable experience: had to investigate why a midiclip of one bar length would not keep its length when changing tempo (answer was to tick some hidden checkbox to make it work as expected) - end of user experience!

This is a typical Reaper experience. Something 'happens' and you have to go hunting for the answer which is rarely obvious and usually an unexpected way for something to behave. There are many, many examples of this kind of thing both in my experience and from being part of the Reaper forum for 8 years or so.

[chk071]

The main issue i had were the context menus with dozens of options (in english) which i had no clue about. Yes, i can download a german translation, but, apart from that it's probably obsolete on the next update where features were added, i wouldn't even know if i understood the options then. And context menus with loads of options are the arch enemy of usability, and a 101 fault in UI design anyway. "You can modify the UI the way you want." Yes. IF you know what you want. A beginner doesn't know what he wants, he wants to learn what this is all about. There are DAW's which make it WAY, WAY easier than Reaper for beginners. Ableton for example has a built in help, so you'd probably won't even necessarily need a manual. And DAW's like Cubase or Studio One (which i hardly ever looked into the manual) are so intuitive, that you won't have a hard time getting stuff.

[Mutant]

my most memorable experience: had to investigate why a midiclip of one bar length would not keep its length when changing tempo (answer was to tick some hidden checkbox to make it work as expected) - end of user experience!

For some people "1 right click on the MIDI item and 1 mouse movement right, then down", or "in project settings" is "hidden" and for some people these 2 would be the first 2 places to look for that setting.
One of the first things i did in REAPER was setting up a default project with all the settings i wanted, then i never had to touch these settings again.

(try double clicking the vertical scroll bar for random zoom levels

LOL what is random about it ???
First zoom level is 1 currently selected track zoomed to the whole arrange screen space, second is what i call default size, third is tracks minimized.

The main issue i had were the context menus with dozens of options (in english) which i had no clue about. Yes, i can download a german translation, but, apart from that it's probably obsolete on the next update where features were added, i wouldn't even know if i understood the options then.

Your english is better than my english.

And context menus with loads of options are the arch enemy of usability, and a 101 fault in UI design anyway. "You can modify the UI the way you want." Yes. IF you know what you want. A beginner doesn't know what he wants, he wants to learn what this is all about. There are DAW's which make it WAY, WAY easier than Reaper for beginners. Ableton for example has a built in help, so you'd probably won't even necessarily need a manual. And DAW's like Cubase or Studio One (which i hardly ever looked into the manual) are so intuitive, that you won't have a hard time getting stuff.

I was once a REAPER newbie too, i got through that phase mostly painlessly.

[dentnile]

Mutant, are you trying to convince us that Reaper is good UX?

[do_androids_dream]

(try double clicking the vertical scroll bar for random zoom levels

LOL what is random about it ??? First zoom level is 1 currently selected track zoomed to the whole arrange screen space, second is what i call default size, third is tracks minimized.

That second level is not always that size (it's inconsistent) and the minimised zoom always hides most of the tracks 'above' the arrange page - you have to 'scroll' to reveal them (even though you're not really scrolling). Also.. do you really 'laugh out loud' when you read things like this?! It wasn't that funny..

I was once a REAPER newbie too, i got through that phase mostly painlessly.

You wouldn't have to do that at all in a well designed piece of software.

[Frantz]

REAPER is a maze (of confusing menus).

[Mutant]

Mutant, are you trying to convince us that Reaper is good UX?

Nope, only that it depends only on the user.
In your case it is a mess and in my case it is perfectly usable and better/faster than some other DAWs i tried in the last ~15 years.

[chk071]

@ Mutant: You can learn everything. The questions is just if things are being made easy for you or not. I figured more and more out in Reaper too, but found that other DAW's make it significantly easier for me, and just were more "fun" (which is of course very subjective).

[Mutant]

Also.. do you really 'laugh out loud' when you read things like this?! It wasn't that funny..

In this case, yes i did.
I was watching Monty Pythons channel on YT last night, so i imagined John Cleese saying that just as he often says ridiculous things that make people laugh.

[dermichl]

my most memorable experience: had to investigate why a midiclip of one bar length would not keep its length when changing tempo (answer was to tick some hidden checkbox to make it work as expected) - end of user experience!

For some people "1 right click on the MIDI item and 1 mouse movement right, then down", or "in project settings" is "hidden" and for some people these 2 would be the first 2 places to look for that setting.
One of the first things i did in REAPER was setting up a default project with all the settings i wanted, then i never had to touch these settings again.

(try double clicking the vertical scroll bar for random zoom levels

LOL what is random about it ???
First zoom level is 1 currently selected track zoomed to the whole arrange screen space, second is what i call default size, third is tracks minimized.

The main issue i had were the context menus with dozens of options (in english) which i had no clue about. Yes, i can download a german translation, but, apart from that it's probably obsolete on the next update where features were added, i wouldn't even know if i understood the options then.

Your english is better than my english.

And context menus with loads of options are the arch enemy of usability, and a 101 fault in UI design anyway. "You can modify the UI the way you want." Yes. IF you know what you want. A beginner doesn't know what he wants, he wants to learn what this is all about. There are DAW's which make it WAY, WAY easier than Reaper for beginners. Ableton for example has a built in help, so you'd probably won't even necessarily need a manual. And DAW's like Cubase or Studio One (which i hardly ever looked into the manual) are so intuitive, that you won't have a hard time getting stuff.

I was once a REAPER newbie too, i got through that phase mostly painlessly.

with all due respect but one bar of music is always one bar of music regardles of the musical tempo! there's no reason why there is different behavior in REAPER.

[Mutant]

with all due respect but one bar of music is always one bar of music regardles of the musical tempo! there's no reason why there is different behavior in REAPER.

While i can agree that one bar of music will be one bar regardless of the tempo.
It doesn't necessarily apply to MIDI data.
MIDI can be also used for things other than music.
Like designing sound effects for example, or triggering external hardware (i don't mean synths), or even launching fireworks.

[dermichl]

...launching fireworks...

seems like you have to have an answer to every issue with your beloved REAPER.
if i am to decide which DAW to choose i think of music in the first place!

on a side note: many entertainment industry gadgets do use note on to trigger cues/actions of any kind. so if i had programmed a firework in sync with music, i'd be more than happy to have my fireworks still in sync with the music score after changing the tempo...
ymmv

[do_androids_dream]

Also.. do you really 'laugh out loud' when you read things like this?! It wasn't that funny..

In this case, yes i did.
I was watching Monty Pythons channel on YT last night, so i imagined John Cleese saying that just as he often says ridiculous things that make people laugh.

Ah yes, my comment on an aspect of a piece of software is just as funny as Python... It's always a bit disconcerting when someone comes out the woodwork to blindly defend something. If you're not going to take this thread seriously it would be better if you went somewhere else because it gets in the way of proper discussion.

[trimph1]

This Reaper thread is like the others.

The whole thing is that the Music gets done with what you think would work for you.

No sense in argying about whose DAW is better than whose.