What does Waves Vitamin *actually* do? It ain't no saturator...

[aciddose]

But show me a fizz pedal that allows you to enter that offset

The waveshaper in Xhip. Every hardware pedal I've ever designed. (You realize good ones include an offset trim pot even if it isn't a knob, right?)

The problem with oldschool "fuzz pedals" from the 1960s is that they're incredibly unreliable. The bias depends upon temperature, the particular transistor used, the age of the pedal, how full the battery is and so on. Do you know how much of a dumb-f*** you have to be to just blindly accept "these pedals sound better with a half-dead battery?" You probably need to be half brain-dead. Yet this is "common knowledge" among guitarists although hardly any of them have even a rough idea of why, or ever bother to question "couldn't we do this better?"

Next question?

[simon.a.billington]

In other news...



Describes it as not compression, not eq, not saturation, not stereo widening but a little bit of everything. I suspect Yoad was on the development team as he has been with other products.

It is a bit puzzling because it doesn't overtly sound like anything in particular, but maybe be the clue is in the "little bit of everything". Perhaps its several subtle processes to create the overall sound. It certainly sound like nothing saturates, but a tiny bit of saturation is often unnoticeable as with a tiny bit of eq and compression. Only if you A/B the process can you tell the subtle difference.

That's actually not unlike a Waves product to chain a few little bit of a few different processes together. They've done countless Signature plugins, some of which take this approach, then there are other products like Cobalt Saphira. Supposedly you can drive the processes harder in that to create a different sound. Perhaps, there is similar setup in Vitamin in that sense too.

The Punch control might have been taken from H-Comp. If i recall correctly they kind of combined the HP roll of of a conventional sidechain along with the 'Thrust" concept the learned from doing the API and possibly added a little transient enhancing as well.

[aciddose]

If it were any of those things listed you'd be able to measure the effect on a pure sine.

If a pure sine is not affected, it is not any of those at all.

Speculating about it without knowing the first thing about how to take reliable scientific measurements to prove it has any effect at all is a waste of time.

It must have some measurable effect, right? Then perhaps investing effort toward measuring the effect it has would be more useful?

[simon.a.billington]

But show me a fizz pedal that allows you to enter that offset

The waveshaper in Xhip. Every hardware pedal I've ever designed. (You realize good ones include an offset trim pot even if it isn't a knob, right?)

The problem with oldschool "fuzz pedals" from the 1960s is that they're incredibly unreliable. The bias depends upon temperature, the particular transistor used, the age of the pedal, how full the battery is and so on. Do you know how much of a dumb-f*** you have to be to just blindly accept "these pedals sound better with a half-dead battery?" You probably need to be half brain-dead. Yet this is "common knowledge" among guitarists although hardly any of them have even a rough idea of why, or ever bother to question "couldn't we do this better?"

Next question?

Yes you've shown one example.

It's interesting how you get off on insulting the world around you as if you are some sort of morally superior individual. The trouble is insulting the world around because it simple has it's own view on something does anything but show you to be morally superior.

I dont doubt that its the same maths with a few numbers tweaked for whatever case at hand. 99% of the products don't allow for tweaking of such numbers so its hardly something that anyone could practically apply.

For practice reasons the world has described certain sounds to certain words, thats just how it is. it makes for efficient communication. You don't have to agree, but you do have to live with it. Because it wont do you well to insult 90% of you customers simply because they choose to make the distinction between overdrive and distortion. This simply isn't a healthy nor a constructive attitude.

There lots of appropriations of words that i don't agree with, but it just is and i cannot change the world and simply refuse to insult it for choosing to have a language the can communicate with efficiently and with little ambiguity.

[aciddose]

What makes you think I ever argued anything regarding words or how they're used?

Major, epic scale comprehension fail.

[simon.a.billington]

Boy you are so full of insults today.

You have laid it all out with your arguments towards distortion etc all being the same thing and its simply silly to acknowledge it as anything else.

Yet for some reasons some have us have tried to get through your wall off self importance and social ignorance that there is a defining difference despite the underlying maths the same. You were the one that argued that point.

But please, go ahead throw some more insults to distract us form your incompetence.

[aciddose]

Find a single "insult" I've thrown at anyone.

If you're insulted, well, that's curious indeed.

[simon.a.billington]

Hmmm, looks suspiciously like harmonics to me.

[simon.a.billington]

Hmmm I don't know maybe this for example...

Do you know how much of a dumb-f*** you have to be to just blindly accept "these pedals sound better with a half-dead battery?" You probably need to be half brain-dead...?

It doesn't matter who you direct it at its still a very insulting attitude

[aciddose]

No it isn't, it's a statement of fact. If you choose to be insulted that's your problem, not mine. It makes you a cry-baby who can't deal with reality.

I was once that very dumbf*** myself. I asked "can't we do better?", I learned and now I'm telling other poor helpless dumbf***s that they can learn and get better too. I'm here to help, but I can only help those willing to help themselves.

[aciddose]

Hmmm, looks suspiciously like harmonics to me.

So the previous posts about there being no such effect were simply untrue.

It may then be far more simple and indeed a combination or chain of what are apparently very mildly applied and common effects.

What happens when the amplitude is increased? Modulated? The frequency is changed?

What differentiates it from the application of such common effects in an insert chain? Obviously perhaps ease of use and lack of flexibility: many decisions have been made ahead of time by the author, making such an effect much like an "effects preset" with limited variability.

Much like a "fuzz pedal", a simplification which has both pros and cons. Most notable for the fact that the cons are attributable to (in the case of the "fuzz pedal", cost reduction, this effect likely simplification) and where the cons are then encountered by the user there is absolutely no way to avoid them.

[simon.a.billington]

No not at all. The only thing I'm insulted with is your lack of respect for others. But don't mistake me for no crybaby at all. Simply pointing out your appalling social behaviour does not make anyone a crybaby. If anything its to help you to become socially aware of how other perceive you.

You wont get the satisfaction of provoking any response form me.

I was once very young and ignorant too, I don't pretend to be anything otherwise. Over the decades though, i have learned as well some of it formal, some of it personal study and research, but much of it from cold, hard experience. I too share the wealth of knowledge, to help others evolve. It would seem not everyone can be helped though.

Those with pathological social disorders can be hard to help indeed.

I'd like to take a look at this for a moment...

If it were any of those things listed you'd be able to measure the effect on a pure sine.

If a pure sine is not affected, it is not any of those at all.

A fair enough evaluation. I don't think anyone is debating this much.

Speculating about it without knowing the first thing about how to take reliable scientific measurements to prove it has any effect at all is a waste of time.

Really now?? A waste of time?? It's a bit bold of you to assume to dictate to others with how they spend their time and what constitutes a "waste" There are many philosophers and scientists and educators that would disagree with you.

Do you know the father of all knowledge is philosophy. Did you know that science first beings with the philosophical question?? The first act is to ask, to posit, to enquire, to share thoughts. The second act is to study it and take measurements and formulate a theory based on your findings.

It's never a waste of times to share ideas, exchange thoughts to provoke other people into thinking. Perhaps they will take a more analytical approach?? Perhaps they have first hand experience to offer??

Wast of time for you perhaps, but not to many, many others.

It must have some measurable effect, right? Then perhaps investing effort toward measuring the effect it has would be more useful?

Well yes and it was tested and it was measured and there is evidence to suggest that Vitamin does induce a harmonic change. it would seem you are quite possibly in error. I do hope your fragile ego would be able to deal with the possibility of being wrong.

[aciddose]

No not at all. The only thing I'm insulted with is your lack of respect for others. But don't mistake me for no crybaby at all. Simply pointing out your appalling social behaviour does not make anyone a crybaby. If anything its to help you to become socially aware of how other perceive you.

I'm full well aware of that and that my posts are all a waste of time.

[aciddose]

Really now?? A waste of time?? It's a bit bold of you to assume to dictate to others with how they spend their time and what constitutes a "waste" There are many philosophers and scientists and educators that would disagree with you.

Do you know the father of all knowledge is philosophy. Did you know that science first beings with the philosophical question?? The first act is to ask, to posit, to enquire, to share thoughts. The second act is to study it and take measurements and formulate a theory based on your findings.

It's never a waste of times to share ideas, exchange thoughts to provoke other people into thinking. Perhaps they will take a more analytical approach?? Perhaps they have first hand experience to offer??

Wast of time for you perhaps, but not to many, many others.

I disagree. It is absolutely a waste of time if you take the whole of my statement in context.

In fact I'm well aware of scientific principals and if you take them entirely into account, once again in context, they say exactly the same thing. Without being aware of what it takes to validate your speculation, that speculation is ensured to be a waste of time.

So in other words the claim "it is not a saturator" is a waste of time where the OP was unwilling to test whether the plug-in produces harmonics or not. As in fact, it is indeed a non-linear processor regardless of what the OP claims.

[do_androids_dream]

Hmmm, looks suspiciously like harmonics to me.

So the previous posts about there being no such effect were simply untrue.

Beyond rookie mistake for me.. I forgot to take out the direct signal..