When can we stop making 32-bit plugins?

[A_SN]

But it would be great if other developers had such data, even better if we could know the evolution throughout the years!

Since I've provided 64-bit versions (~2008) 32-bit has never been above 50%. The past two days 32-bit has made up 37% of downloads but to get real numbers you would need to track installations using a server ping.

Thanks for the stats/estimates! Yeah I was thinking the same thing about using downloads, I have a feeling that lots of people just kind of download it all, like people who get both the Mac and Windows version at the same time (on the same computer!).

What would be even more straightforward than the installer would be having the plugin phone home to check for new versions periodically, that would give you an opportunity to know what's actually being run.

But anyway sounds like we're further from giving up 32-bit than I first thought. It's like everything in the desktop computing world is evolving slower and slower, which means getting stuck having to deal with old junk for longer and longer. People who insist that things are changing faster and faster are crazy, just yesterday a 47-year old Boeing 747 was retired from commercial service, armies still use a handgun from 1911 and we've had 64-bit OSes for quite a while now but people are still using 32-bit OSes, 2 GB limit and all!

In addition it's interesting to note that MacOS will be dropping 32-bit support partially within the next year, even running 32-bit code from the 64-bit versions.

Many Linux distributions have never and will never support running 32-bit applications on a 64-bit system due to complexities associated with dynamic linkage and libraries.

Windows is the only platform where they felt it was important enough to include a robust compatibility layer (SXS).

So if Microsoft drops 32-bit compatibility from Win10 soon (<5 years?) this problem will have solved itself.

That's a good point, but as I just learnt they still make Windows 10 in 32-bit flavour! I had no idea about the Mac OS thing, good to know, I think Photosounder 1.9 is still PowerPC/Intel 32-bit.

I don't know how much time it takes to create and maintain 32 and 64 bit versions of a plugin but any time spent with 32 bit is time not spent moving forward.

As long as there's more than let's say 1% of people who need a 32-bit version it's gonna be worth it, it doesn't take that much time, it just eats up some extra minutes when trying to make a release.

Oh, right;
64bit is better somehow, and nothing good was ever done in 32bit...

Its just a hassle that will eventually be forced upon me.
I will get nothing out of it, but trouble.

It's just an annoying transition to deal with, and things will get smoother when that transition is over and 64-bit reigns supreme.

But it wasn't simply recorded by "default" in former days.

We're talking about web servers, web servers log every request, complete with the time and the IP address. If you so much as looked at my website once then I have some logs somewhere that tell me which browser, which OS you used, what you clicked (you can guess from what was requested) and when and so on, so when you download something it's logged and therefore you can easily know if the same person clicked a link 3 seconds after clicking another.

We're starting to see 64 bit only plugins pop up.

See, that's what I was wondering too! It's gotta start somewhere. Are they commercial plugins though? Because you might want to think twice (like I'm doing right now) before going 64 bit-only if it's gonna cost you!

Anyway, so far 30% of people in this poll say they haven't completely moved on, it's much more than I expected! Really makes you wonder why host developers haven't stepped their bridging game up.

the real question should be, "when will we be using 128-bit plugins?" that's what keeps me up at night...

I don't want to go full "640KB (of RAM) ought to be enough for anybody", but 64-bits of addressing space ought to be enough for at least this entire century when you consider how huge that is. Same thing as IPv6, no need to hold your breath for IPv8

[elassi]

@aciddose

Ok, agree that shopkeepers always 'scanned' their (potential) customers and tried to improve the presentation of the 'portfolio' in order to push sales. Good point.

It's the extended tools at hand that scare me. Remember a 'causa' where a chain store knew that a girl is pregnant while the family didn't have a clue (not to mention she hadn't enough courage at this time to tell them about it). Though, the automated marketing machine was rollin' and thus unveiled the secret...

[elassi]

We're talking about web servers, web servers log every request, complete with the time and the IP address.

Sorry, didn't want to hijack the thread. Honestly.

Impulsive posting evolved...

[aciddose]

Anyway, so far 30% of people in this poll say they haven't completely moved on, it's much more than I expected! Really makes you wonder why host developers haven't stepped their bridging game up.

That's probably because the vast majority of 32-bit people are using old hardware. They tend not to be customers and tend to want to continue to use older hardware & software together. You will get a small number of customers from this group but it will continue to shrink and already makes up only a small segment of the total market.

For the most part, customers are running fairly modern hardware. If anything I would suggest that by not providing 32-bit versions you'll be likely to eliminate the majority of warez versions

[aciddose]

@aciddose

Ok, agree that shopkeepers always 'scanned' their (potential) customers and tried to improve the presentation of the 'portfolio' in order to push sales. Good point.

It's the extended tools at hand that scare me. Remember a 'causa' where a chain store knew that a girl is pregnant while the family didn't have a clue (not to mention she hadn't enough courage at this time to tell them about it). Though, the automated marketing machine was rollin' and thus unveiled the secret...

It's definitely interesting... like the Chinese curse: "may you live in interesting times."

I suspect I probably have a "person of interest" mark because I don't have a facebook profile

[braj]

I'm all about the 16 bit, me and my trusty Atari ST. Midi ports built in, baby!

[HSum]

I don't know how much time it takes to create and maintain 32 and 64 bit versions of a plugin but any time spent with 32 bit is time not spent moving forward.

If you have coded your plugin the good way which many of the devs already do (typesafe), you have no overhead other than an extra compiling step and maybe the creation of an extra installer (both stesp are pretty automatable). Theoretically there is no reason to drop 32bit support from a developers point of view other than there are no customers anymore. Even the 4GB memory limit (which is a plausible reason for some plugins especially rompler and sampler) is something that can be solved through lightweighted mechanisms.

[Dasheesh]

When Microsoft stops installing 2 complete operating systems on your hard drive?

[thecontrolcentre]

I'm all about the 16 bit, me and my trusty Atari ST. Midi ports built in, baby!

Oh yeah ... but the STe had 4MB of RAM. Oh yes!

[braj]

You might want to drop 32 bit since it is just more code to support, even if it is just handled by the compiler. There can still be bugs that only show up in one and not the other, and it is a lot more compatibility testing too, especially if you do Mac/Win. You still should verify everything works before pushing out a build to your customers, even if it is unlikely something is different. So basically it costs more to support 32 bit still.

[Vertion]

While it's true that 32-bit is fundamentally archival by principle at this point, we are a software community that still sits largely on a 32-bit foundation. You can all look to 32-bit plugin development programs that do not output 64-bit, or do not output 64-bit without a fee (32-bit plugin output is free).

32-bit plugins will still be wanted for archival reasons in the future, do not discard them, similar to how we got out our old analog equipment after all these years... well some people will want the old 32-bit plugins from today... likely someone readying this very sentence. Hi!

Anyhow, 32-bit is already going the way of the dinosaur... that is.. extinct until boredom beckons it's return. Enjoy the end of the 32-bit era while you can... Break out Vanguard, and all the old 32-bit gems and make a few more songs and let them sleep in your archives. I'd love to hear them.

[layzer]

i could care less. as far as i can tell, all the plugins needed to create and manipulate electronic music have already been created in 32bit. 64bit and beyond just make them more complicated and bloated.

[braj]

i could care less. as far as i can tell, all the plugins needed to create and manipulate electronic music have already been created in 32bit. 64bit and beyond just make them more complicated and bloated.

There is a real reason 64 bit is better: RAM. Your computer can simply do more. If you want to call multi-sampled instruments bloat, well, it depends on what kind of music you make. You can argue all you want that a small door is sufficient for a house unless you want to bring a grand piano through the doorway, then it becomes impossible.

[Teksonik]

As long as there's more than let's say 1% of people who need a 32-bit version it's gonna be worth it, it doesn't take that much time, it just eats up some extra minutes when trying to make a release.

Worth it for who ? One percent more sales for the developer ? For those who have embraced the inevitable and gone 64 bit any time spent on a 32 bit version is a waste of time.

Are they commercial plugins though? Because you might want to think twice (like I'm doing right now) before going 64 bit-only if it's gonna cost you!

IK Multimedia's Sampletank 3, Syntronik and T-Racks 5 are all 64 bit only. If you're talking from an end user's point of view going 64 bit guarantees you will be able to use new software as more and more developers drop 32 bit support.

But the question was "can we stop making 32 bit plugins" ? In my opinion , yes. Stop right now.

[Teksonik]

i could care less. as far as i can tell, all the plugins needed to create and manipulate electronic music have already been created in 32bit. 64bit and beyond just make them more complicated and bloated.

How is the 64 bit version of DUNE 2 for example any more complicated or bloated than the 32 bit version ?

Anyway not everyone is stuck in 2002. Some of us have moved on.