Tyrell N6 question

[JRL]

I was wondering if this is the correct place to post questions. If so I'm curious about what time units the ENV sliders use for attack, decay, and release. I would like know how to specify milliseconds.
Thanks.

[chk071]

No time units, just the u-he typical values. If you want to know exactly, you could measure the envelope stages with an oscilloscope, e.g. What do you need the precise values in milliseconds for though?

[dlarseninclusive]

AFK on my phone atm. I have been patching Tyrell for the last two days and tried a few things, it looks like a fun experiment, and I would like to understand this better.

I tried patching the sliders to the amp control of an external LFO, the 1% increments are the same as the sliders. So that is static

The envelop of a physical harmonic oscillator is based on mass, distance and resistance. (Gravity, viscosity, ohms etc...) resulting in amplitude and frequency that decays over time t; (delta Af/t = envelope) I think.. those are the parameters that are available to adjust.

I found an oscilloscope that can do the measureing. The last part is understanding the math better.

I think a function like F(t, x, y)=ft(x, y) solved for √t calculated for ASD and R should provide the baseline tangent needed to compare the measurements to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope_(mathematics)


Anyway I am processing that. I will get back.


If anyone knows that physics, insights would be appreciated.

[dlarseninclusive]

A guess to try, is modulating the ossicolator amp with a ramp LFO tuned to .01. That should give you the average time for all 4 stages in the envelop, I'm not sure how to tie that to the gate signal to queue release. I can look when I get back to my desk.

Just thinking out loud

[Chris-S]

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Attack (logarithmic shape):

0    0.001 (minimum attack time)
5    0.001
10   0.009
15   0.029
20   0.070
25   0.137
30   0.236
35   0.375
40   0.560 
45   0.798   
50   1.094
55   1.454 
60   1.888
65   2.400
70   2.994
75   3.688
80   4.475
85   5.369
90   6.380
95   7.484
100  8.743

Decay and Release (to -60 dB) exponential shape:

0    0.001
5    0.002
10   0.018
15   0.060
20   0.139
25   0.272
30   0.469
35   0.756
40   1.109
45   1.578   
50   2.180
55   2.959
60   3.742
65   4.785
70   6.133
75   7.436
80   8.866
90   13.162
100  18.063

Sustain level seems to be linear, so 50 is -6 dB, 10 is -20 dB.

[Chris-S]

Comparison of Tyrell envelopes vs. Repro-5:
Attack/Decay = 50.0.

[dlarseninclusive]

Some measurements:

Nice work. The measurements I am getting are spot on in some areas and vastly different in others on your list. Also I am having a hard time with the longer measurements. I will try different scope plugins and try again.

Again, my goal is to understand envelopes better. Not to step on this thread.

[Chris-S]

Which value is different? For the decay (to zero) it depends on the end-level (I've choosen -60 dB).
Did'nt check if the decay times are depending on the sustain level.

[JRL]

Great info. Thank you for the replies.

[dlarseninclusive]

Which value is different? For the decay (to zero) it depends on the end-level (I've choosen -60 dB).
Did'nt check if the decay times are depending on the sustain level.

I few spots over 25 in attack, and I think decay was about the same. The shorter ones were identical. My first try as using my beatstep, but the gate signal was too short to get past about 30. I am trying again wit the DAW sequencer and a longer note. I am pretty sure the problem is my own technique.

[Chris-S]

Did'nt check if the decay times are depending on the sustain level.

Checked it. Seems not to be depending on sustain level, so the envelope is time-based (not rate-based) like in the majority of all synths.

[dlarseninclusive]

Reason was giving me some headaches with the oscilloscope, I just picked up Waveform last night and I am very impressed. All of my VST problems are gone, rewire worked on the first try, and I can now load even more Repro-5 units in a project.

Point being the oscilloscopes work, I will circle back on this when I get a minute. This is interesting, and I want to follow it though.