Can you really handle the truth/critiques about your work?

[justin3am]

Well, in a face to face conversation, there is more room for nuance. You can read body language, facial expressions etc, and you can have a back and forth about intention vs result. If you have a captive audience, you can rewind and go into details about what a listener is hearing vs what the creator was trying to say.

I like getting criticism but I don't get much these days. Not that I think my work is above reproach but maybe it's abstract and folks can't tell what sounds bad due to intent vs. just being lazy or sloppy. Honestly, I'd like to hear more critiques, whether I plan to act on them or not. It's a nice way to start a conversation. I mean, I'm always trying to improve my skills, so I am always on the lookout for a different perspective but it can also be interesting to have a discussion about personal aesthetic. Maybe part of it is, the fact that I am reluctant to be critical, when I'm not invited to do so.

On the other hand, I have been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism, as a freelance audio worker. A lot of it was accurate but a lot of it has been the result of clients who didn't adequately express their expectations. From those experiences, I've learned not to take anything personally (and also, how to be a mind reader).

[aciddose]

People generally don't have a clue what they want, and even if they did it's way beyond their capacity to eloquently express it.

Always be mindful of the source of critique.

[experimental.crow]

i've dropped a discouraging word ...
or two , upon occasion ...

some people dig it ...
others , not so much ...

i'm constantly astonished by the few people , like seismic1 , who review
75-80% more tracks than i even give a sample listen ...
my hats off to those people ... an impressive amount of time invested , and
the encouragement put forth !.. mirable dictu !!!

[justin3am]

People generally don't have a clue what they want, and even if they did it's way beyond their capacity to eloquently express it.

Yes, that is where the mind reading skill comes in handy.
It's most frustrating when someone who is paying me, is unable to describe in terms that I understand, exactly what they want. But I usually consider that a fault of my own; not being able to glean meaning from someone who isn't as steeped in nomenclature as I.

[justin3am]

i'm constantly astonished by the few people , like seismic1 , who review
75-80% more tracks than i even give a sample listen ...
my hats off to those people ... an impressive amount of time invested , and
the encouragement put forth !.. mirable dictu !!!

No kidding! He always has a thoughtful comment. Much appreciated.
Years ago we had a thread for KVRs most appreciated. We should bring that back.

[jancivil]

One of the better moments of constructive criticism of what I do/did in the digital realm here was Justin3am telling me the mix 'leaves a lot to be desired'. Which was an understatement if anything at that time, as I knew nothing about mixing in the box/with plugins and knew very little about mixing to begin with. Subjective impressions of 'the work' in terms of composition I have really very little interest in reading. The worst was when a guy flat out accused me of 'carbon copy'-ing Frank Zappa in a piece (as though I had the ability to grab chunks from somewhere and cut/paste to my taste {it seemed like he'd read this bit where Art Tripp of ca 1969 Mothers told some journo he believed that's how Zappa worked and "I could do better with enough time in the library"}) where there wasn't even a direct reference and quite a lot of it wasn't terrifically Zappaesque.

It's Internettown, Jake.

Real life, well my first time on a stage with grown-up musicians I can report to youse they were not coddling me, and when I had guitar as a major a bit later, Clare Callahan was apparently not about teh praise. Finally by the end of first year I had the Tedesco whatever, Sonatina iirc in fair shape and she said "I have nothing to say about that." which meant there were no problems worth mentioning.

This kind of experience is not at all like the internet, you don't go in thinking you know better than your teacher, you do not get there acting like that.


I don't think I have the right disposition at all to be a film composer, a lot of input and doubt and second guessing and a visual or literary person with a predilection for certain music we're constantly circling back to. I did a job once where I had a little over 24 hours to score this two-minute film and his notion of it was something quite impossible with what he had. Pretty stressful and he's only called me back once.

[experimental.crow]

One of the better moments of constructive criticism of what I do/did in the digital realm here was Justin3am telling me the mix 'leaves a lot to be desired'. Which was an understatement if anything at that time, as I knew nothing about mixing in the box/with plugins and knew very little about mixing to begin with. Subjective impressions of 'the work' in terms of composition I have really very little interest in reading. The worst was when a guy flat out accused me of 'carbon copy'-ing Frank Zappa in a piece (as though I had the ability to grab chunks from somewhere and cut/paste to my taste {it seemed like he'd read this bit where Art Tripp of ca 1969 Mothers told some journo he believed that's how Zappa worked and "I could do better with enough time in the library"}) where there wasn't even a direct reference and quite a lot of it wasn't terrifically Zappaesque.

It's Internettown, Jake.

Real life, well my first time with grown-up musicians I can report to youse they were not coddling me, and when I had guitar as a major a bit later, Clare Callahan was apparently not about teh praise. Finally by the end of first year I had the Tedesco whatever, Sonatina iirc in fair shape and she said "I have nothing to say about that." which meant there were no problems worth mentioning.

I don't think I have the right disposition at all to be a film composer, a lot of input and doubt and second guessing and a visual or literary person with a predilection for certain music we're constantly circling back to. I did a job once where I had a little over 24 hours to score this two-minute film and his notion of it was something quite impossible with what he had. Pretty stressful and he's only called me back once.

bad for glass ...

[jancivil]

Philip Glass?

I have to say, the weirdest music I have ever heard in a film was him. It wasn't super avant-garde dissonant weird, it was just a very perverted tonality-derived sound, really unlike anything I ever heard in my life. Demented-sounding. I wonder if anyone asked him 'What the f**k is this shit?' during this project. But while it was so off it called attention to itself, the film was like that a bit so it may have been genius to come up with that strategy.

[experimental.crow]

Philip Glass?

I have to say, the weirdest music I have ever heard in a film was him. It wasn't super avant-garde dissonant weird, it was just a very perverted tonality-derived sound, really unlike anything I ever heard in my life. Demented-sounding. I wonder if anyone asked him 'What the f**k is this shit?' during this project. But while it was so off it called attention to itself, the film was like that a bit so it may have been genius to come up with that strategy.

responding to your Chinatown reference ...

noah cross' gardener , to j.j.gittes :
" sart watel bad for glass " ...

[jancivil]

Oh, hmmm, I recall that now that you mention it. Odd line.

[justin3am]

One of the better moments of constructive criticism of what I do/did in the digital realm here was Justin3am telling me the mix 'leaves a lot to be desired'. Which was an understatement if anything at that time, as I knew nothing about mixing in the box/with plugins and knew very little about mixing to begin with. Subjective impressions of 'the work' in terms of composition I have really very little interest in reading.

But I think those are example of how to (and how not to) start a conversation from a critique. I mean if you can focus on something that the creator knows can be improved/wants to improve, they are more likely to be receptive, likely hoping they will learn something. It's different from comments which don't provide any substantive perspective.

I can always count on Dr. Zoidberg to be honest and objective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG2KMkQLZmI

[ATS]

When I first finish a song all I want is critique so I can perfect the song. But after Ia m done all I want to hear is how wonderful it is

[aciddose]

Everyone knows where it's right to draw the line. It's your line.

[Musicisbest]

I gain considerable info from a fair critique.

Having said that, I am careful who I trust to do the critique.

[zvenx]

I have been earning my living from music for well over 20 years......if you can't take criticism you are in the wrong business.
I have had clients think my work is genius to clients who thought it was the worse thing they had ever heard and really wrong for the project...
Personally, I learn more from constructive criticism... tell me why you don't like it.....
Even the greats have people criticize their work....life goes on.
you can't please everyone.
and there is no piece of music or for that matter any creative product that everyone likes.
rsp