They haven't launched a new product in many, many years... they seem to have killed off Vanguard after (a few years back) claiming a version 2 would be launched that would be 64-bit and backwards compatible. That never happened. The older synths such as PlastiCZ, JunoX, and QuadraSID also disappeared like a toot in the wind.
What I can see, from their website, is they are still pushing patch packs for their aging rompler and that is their only synth product.
What happened?
What happened to reFX?
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- KVRAF
- 3186 posts since 18 Mar, 2008
Maybe they make enough money on aging rompler and market is so saturated they really don't want to waste time only to fail badly with anything next.
This entire forum is wading through predictions, opinions, barely formed thoughts, drama, and whining. If you don't enjoy that, why are you here? 
ShawnG
ShawnG-
- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
IIRC:
Vanguard, PlastiCZ had a lot of code written by others that wasn't maintained.
I was able to build Vanguard 64-bit that worked just fine in a couple hours of effort, so minimal effort was required there.
The issue was licensing. Since I'm not (and never was) party to that information you'd need to inquire directly about it. All I can tell you is that I do know and was a party to the information that ReFX was not the sole rightsholder for these products.
JunoX: It was only mentioned in passing but I believe Roland sent a C&D or something similar. I don't know anything more about it, apparently it was never re-built but I do believe (may be wrong) that Vanguard ~= JunoX, at least in part. I'm not sure if JunoX was the more advanced plug-in with sample capabilities (?) because if not you've left an important one missing from your list.
QuadraSID: Again mentioned in passing that the core was based upon a c64 mos6502 + SID emulator that became unreasonably difficult to maintain. I never understood exactly what was meant by this and never looked at the source code in detail. Essentially my understanding was that it was pretty much impossible to bug fix or create a 64-bit version without a rewrite from near scratch which was simply off the table due to limited interest.
"Vanguard 2" you mention was my code with significant portions from Nexus 2. Other than sharing some features (very loosely) with Vanguard, the product had essentially zero relationship to the original. Completely different everything. Not a single line of shared code anywhere. This product was ready-to-go but continually had unplanned features ("feature creep") added and never went through a sincere beta and bug-fixing or Q&A step. Redesigned three times. A lesson in why creating a single design and sticking to it is a good idea.
Went from "a basic three or four osc synth with some Vanguard features and added modularity, effects and sequencer/arp like Nexus 2" to "fully modular everything, fully modular effects, fully skinnable GUI, ..." because changing things so frequently became such a headache that it was easier to make them modular so it was a lot more easy to handle without changing the code.
So that commentary is totally off-base. You're mislead by the marketing. The truth is there was never a "vanguard 2" but a completely separate unrelated synth that was never finished.
Regarding "more profitable selling presets and samples": double-plus yes.
See here: https://www.kvraudio.com/plugin-ranks.php
I don't see any other of those plugins except "Nexus" on this list, where it has remained (?) in the top-10 for the past 10 years.
Vanguard, PlastiCZ had a lot of code written by others that wasn't maintained.
I was able to build Vanguard 64-bit that worked just fine in a couple hours of effort, so minimal effort was required there.
The issue was licensing. Since I'm not (and never was) party to that information you'd need to inquire directly about it. All I can tell you is that I do know and was a party to the information that ReFX was not the sole rightsholder for these products.
JunoX: It was only mentioned in passing but I believe Roland sent a C&D or something similar. I don't know anything more about it, apparently it was never re-built but I do believe (may be wrong) that Vanguard ~= JunoX, at least in part. I'm not sure if JunoX was the more advanced plug-in with sample capabilities (?) because if not you've left an important one missing from your list.
QuadraSID: Again mentioned in passing that the core was based upon a c64 mos6502 + SID emulator that became unreasonably difficult to maintain. I never understood exactly what was meant by this and never looked at the source code in detail. Essentially my understanding was that it was pretty much impossible to bug fix or create a 64-bit version without a rewrite from near scratch which was simply off the table due to limited interest.
"Vanguard 2" you mention was my code with significant portions from Nexus 2. Other than sharing some features (very loosely) with Vanguard, the product had essentially zero relationship to the original. Completely different everything. Not a single line of shared code anywhere. This product was ready-to-go but continually had unplanned features ("feature creep") added and never went through a sincere beta and bug-fixing or Q&A step. Redesigned three times. A lesson in why creating a single design and sticking to it is a good idea.
Went from "a basic three or four osc synth with some Vanguard features and added modularity, effects and sequencer/arp like Nexus 2" to "fully modular everything, fully modular effects, fully skinnable GUI, ..." because changing things so frequently became such a headache that it was easier to make them modular so it was a lot more easy to handle without changing the code.
So that commentary is totally off-base. You're mislead by the marketing. The truth is there was never a "vanguard 2" but a completely separate unrelated synth that was never finished.
Regarding "more profitable selling presets and samples": double-plus yes.
See here: https://www.kvraudio.com/plugin-ranks.php
I don't see any other of those plugins except "Nexus" on this list, where it has remained (?) in the top-10 for the past 10 years.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
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- Pick Me Pick me!
- Topic Starter
- 10248 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion
Thank you, aciddose, for that detailed explanation.
As far as Vanguard 2 goes, I was simply going by the 'official' news blurb in the KVR news bulletin about Vanguard 2.
It is really too bad about it as I was looking forward to this synth... even a simple 64-bit port would be great imo (since I can no longer use it in Cubase). Instead it appears it was killed off instead of launching whatever they had on the table ready to go... wow.
As far as Vanguard 2 goes, I was simply going by the 'official' news blurb in the KVR news bulletin about Vanguard 2.
It is really too bad about it as I was looking forward to this synth... even a simple 64-bit port would be great imo (since I can no longer use it in Cubase). Instead it appears it was killed off instead of launching whatever they had on the table ready to go... wow.
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- KVRian
- 550 posts since 15 Aug, 2011 from Teesside
I once sent refx an email about improving NEXUS... My comments were about time snapping the reverb predelay, like the virus TI (one of the first to feature this). They actually replied, I was shocked, however, their reply was along the lines of me being retarded, why would i want this? In all their years of development, all the big names who use their Rompler, have never requested it!!!
HMMMM! whist that maybe true! it was clear to me the developers had no idea about music production. Reverb predelay timing is extremely important! How did they not know this? I have to stick to using a calculator, they did tell me the steps the 0-127 moved up in.
I'm not slating NEXUS, i love it... but, I'm very sceptical about seeing any improvements there.
Edit: Ok, admittedly, we should be turning OFF all the Fx and rooting via a buss but still! that's not the point! Their reply was poor!!!!!!
HMMMM! whist that maybe true! it was clear to me the developers had no idea about music production. Reverb predelay timing is extremely important! How did they not know this? I have to stick to using a calculator, they did tell me the steps the 0-127 moved up in.
I'm not slating NEXUS, i love it... but, I'm very sceptical about seeing any improvements there.
Edit: Ok, admittedly, we should be turning OFF all the Fx and rooting via a buss but still! that's not the point! Their reply was poor!!!!!!
Click for music links... Eurotrash!
MSI z390, i7 9700k OC, Noctua Cooling, NVMe 970 Pro, 64GB 3200C16, BeQuiet PSU, W11, Cubase 13, Avenger, Spire, Nexus, iZotope, Virus TI (INTERGRATED).
MSI z390, i7 9700k OC, Noctua Cooling, NVMe 970 Pro, 64GB 3200C16, BeQuiet PSU, W11, Cubase 13, Avenger, Spire, Nexus, iZotope, Virus TI (INTERGRATED).
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- KVRAF
- 7872 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA
mitchiemasha wrote:I once sent refx an email about improving NEXUS... My comments were about time snapping the reverb predelay, like the virus TI (one of the first to feature this). They actually replied, I was shocked, however, their reply was along the lines of me being retarded, why would i want this? In all their years of development, all the big names who use their Rompler, have never requested it!!!
HMMMM! whist that maybe true! it was clear to me the developers had no idea about music production. Reverb predelay timing is extremely important! How did they not know this? I have to stick to using a calculator, they did tell me the steps the 0-127 moved up in.
I'm not slating NEXUS, i love it... but, I'm very sceptical about seeing any improvements there.
Edit: Ok, admittedly, we should be turning OFF all the Fx and rooting via a buss but still! that's not the point! Their reply was poor!!!!!!
Did they actually use that word? If so that is pretty offensive.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali
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- KVRAF
- 12615 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
Well the original Vanguard was more a thing about it not being worth enough to motivate anyone to put up with the hassle I suspect.VitaminD wrote:It is really too bad about it as I was looking forward to this synth... even a simple 64-bit port would be great imo (since I can no longer use it in Cubase). Instead it appears it was killed off instead of launching whatever they had on the table ready to go... wow.
You can find a bit of info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_(synthesizer)
Once plug-ins like Sylenth, Massive and a whole slew of other semi-modular "basic synths" were released it really took away the demand for such a synth.The audio engine and a part of the factory sounds from Vanguard were programmed by Markus Krause from Tone2 Audiosoftware.
As for a highly "everything is modular, even the effects" type of synthesizer like my design ended up headed toward: there are definitely other options available today. So there is a time and a place for everything but that time is passed for a "it does everything and more!" synth. We have our zebras and plenty of other options available today that more than satisfy any demand for such a plug-in.
So it isn't much of a shame if any at all. As far as a shame: try wasting over a year on a project like that and having it evaporate to nothing
It can be a bit depressing. The whole thing took 90% of my interest in synth plug-ins and tossed it out the window.Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.
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- KVRist
- 112 posts since 17 Jun, 2016
I think there should be a way to get rid of that dongle! It is outdated!
I asked the support about that politely and the answer was very thin-skinned!
I was really a little shocked.
In my opinion there is no effort to develop Nexus further there!
I don't use Nexus anymore. Omnisphere, u-he and Natives are completely sufficient for me.
I asked the support about that politely and the answer was very thin-skinned!
I was really a little shocked.
In my opinion there is no effort to develop Nexus further there!
I don't use Nexus anymore. Omnisphere, u-he and Natives are completely sufficient for me.
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- KVRist
- 112 posts since 17 Jun, 2016
I think there should be a way to get rid of that dongle! It is outdated!
I asked the support about that politely and the answer was very thin-skinned!
I was really a little shocked.
In my opinion there is no effort to develop Nexus further there!
I don't use Nexus anymore. Omnisphere, u-he and Natives are completely sufficient for me.
I asked the support about that politely and the answer was very thin-skinned!
I was really a little shocked.
In my opinion there is no effort to develop Nexus further there!
I don't use Nexus anymore. Omnisphere, u-he and Natives are completely sufficient for me.
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- KVRAF
- 2772 posts since 22 May, 2017
They quickly killed off their best products and foolishly put all of their eggs in the overrated Nexus basket.
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- KVRAF
- 1614 posts since 24 Feb, 2004
I emailed asking for the same thing, plus, therefore, the reverb time to be in seconds instead of just 1-127. Tempo sync for the phaser/flanger etc. Similar reply.mitchiemasha wrote:IMy comments were about time snapping the reverb predelay...their reply was along the lines of me being retarded, why would i want this? In all their years of development, all the big names who use their Rompler, have never requested it!!!
As with any group of people, there are some devs who are prone to ass-holery.
"What embecile composed this list :/"
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- KVRian
- 665 posts since 29 Nov, 2002 from Bury St. Edmunds, England
QuadraSID is / was fantastic...easily one of the best SID sounding synths I've used. I emailed a while back and was told they had absolutely no plans to update it. Sadly I had to recently upgrade and can no longer run it in Logic, I shall miss it!