Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
SoundPorn
KVRist
471 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Waveform9 and as a DAW in general it's just ridiculously easy to use for making music.
https://support.roli.com/support/soluti ... n-waveform

Ou_Tis
KVRist
172 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:51 pm

So according to this other thread it seems Halion actually can be set to work with 5D touch:

"I experimented with it for some time now, working on a 5dim instrument, with macro and luma code, and created about some 30 new sounds with ALL the 5 dimensions.
Halion offers you to do it all, although you have to learn some tweaking parameters, like offsets in the matrix to have the cc74, and after touch working the way you want it to"

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=112817

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jancivil
KVRAF
16864 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:00 pm

Cubase is deliberately optimal for MPE.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14750 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:11 pm

Ou_Tis wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:20 pm
I've found that 3rd party plugin developers offer support for Cubase but not Bitwig or Waveform. They don't test with them and tech support tells me they won't even try to solve issues in Bitwig or Waveform.

Bitwig's gui is IMO counterintuitive and inefficient and I keep finding myself sticking with Waveform. But a lot of 3rd party plugins are buggy in Waveform.

(Also, IMO Bitwig's native organ and polysynth sound like crap, though it could just be that I haven't played around with the parameters enough and YMMV.)

How good is Cubase's HALion with the Seaboard [edit: hmm, I see a prior post in this thread seems to imply that Press, Slide and Lift can't be used with Halion... yikes!])? Is mixing in Cubase significantly better than in Bitwig? It seems like I should switch to Cubase but I'm not certain it's worth it....

All my plugins do currently seem to work in Bitwig; maybe mixing will become more efficient once I get used to it....
Lots of 3rd party plugins are buggy in Waveform. Not so in Bitwig. I also find Bitwig Polysynth not so great. It works fine for some stuff but is not on a par with the better synths these days. The newer Phase-4 is a solid synth however and the Sampler is quite good since the recent upgrade to it.

Cubase is overall a more sophisticated DAW with a lot of functionality Bitwig does not have. I like the ease of use and overall workflow of Bitwig better. I would never use most of the capabilities of Cubase anyway and Bitwig is more straightforward. Bitwig also is strong for modulation and sound design and it feels more like an instrument while Cubase feels more like an engineering tool.

Lots of people use Bitwig plus another DAW like Studio One or Cubase. I also have Logic (am on Mac) for when I want to do something Bitwig cannot, but over time I am using Bitwig more and Logic less. I find Bitwig more creative and fun and it works well for MPE (I use a Linnstrument)

Everyone has to figure out what works for them.

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jancivil
KVRAF
16864 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:34 pm

Press = aftertouch, simply pressure.
Slide = CC74
Lift = Note off velocity.

That's all it is. But to leverage it in a single MIDI part, you need the host to take the controller as omni/all. AFAIK Bitwig fails to do this.
There are some kind of involved threads here regarding that. But nevermind; to deal with it in the one part polyphonically, Cubase leverages that via Note Expression. Well, Note off is note off, but that's not relevant. The business end of this is pitch bend aka Glide, CC74, and Pressure for each note. Which you can do after-the-fact [MIDI to NOte Expression], and overdub it (not overdubbing notes, just the controller data).

So here's an actual answer.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14750 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:50 pm

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:34 pm
Press = aftertouch, simply pressure.
Slide = CC74
Lift = Note off velocity.

That's all it is. But to leverage it in a single MIDI part, you need the host to take the controller as omni/all. AFAIK Bitwig fails to do this.
Bitwig does it just fine... all in one clip. And the pitch data is more editable than most MPE hosts because it is in semitones instead of the usual automation. So in Bitwig it is really easy to draw in specific pitch slides if you want.

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jancivil
KVRAF
16864 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:54 am

viewtopic.php?t=507867
Looks like the issue was addressed.
Roger Linn wrote:specifically the inability to record the sent MIDI channel with each note, instead assigning channels round-robin on playback. This results in the inability to play two notes of the same pitch at the same time (like any MIDI keyboard), and in problems playing back recordings of Channel Per Row performances. [...] but 2.4 will fix this...
And the pitch data is more editable than most MPE hosts because it is in semitones instead of the usual automation.

I found that editing it in Note Expression was 'easier' than in the pitch bend or CC lane. Pitch bend is 14 bit. So a 48 semitone setting produces granularity the usual settings (in my experience anyway) really don't. I have no idea what you mean with that, but don't worry about it. I'm interested in pitch quite beyond semitones, so figuring it as some fraction of a semitone really isn't it. It's finer expression. The line there looks like almost nothing happens but that's because of how fine it is.
I actually don't create pitch bend in the editor like I used to, which is the main factor in my interest in the technology, the expressive nature of the control, far beyond what I was doing. I'm interested in pitch.
(Here if I wanted to edit nodes, I would toggle it out of Note Expression and it's back in the pitch bend lane.)


Note Expression leverages the [multiple] Polyphonic aspect of the Expression. So, you may have different notes with their own different pitch, pressure, and CC74. If you do not have that, it's not really MPE. I don't know what Bitwig does, but Cubendo does this.
note expression.png
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pdxindy
KVRAF
14750 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:37 am

Here is what pitch data looks like in Bitwig. Each note has a pitch curve in the piano roll editor and if you drag a point up 4 semitones, you know that is a 4 semitone pitch up.

Image

With a regular automation lane, there is no reference to pitch so if you want to move the pitch up 7 semitones, you can only do that by ear, not visually. Plus it is very fast to edit multiple notes in Bitwig cause each notes has its own pitch data. And of course it can be moved and duplicated very easily.

EDIT: The other MPE parameters (Timbre, Pressure) behave like the graphic you showed.

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jancivil
KVRAF
16864 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Best DAW for Windows that supports MPE.

Post Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:14 am

Oh, hmmm. That is interesting. So now we pretty much know of two hosts which handle it fully.

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