BITWIG STUDIO 3

[Tj Shredder]

Definitely if you don‘t need the DAW features, Usine is ready to patch. Including dmx and video...
I bet a lot of inspiration is coming from there...

[sagetone]

I bet a lot of inspiration is coming from there...

I think you're right on.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

You should try this: http://www.sensomusic.org/

Heheh, I am no stranger to HH3, sir. I live there.

[pdxindy]

...and to the devices NESTED devices (notice the Note FX / FX slots in The Grid):

I wouldn't call those nested in that other than convenience it is no different that putting then before and after the Grid device... be cool if there was a 3rd slot and any devices dropped in that one would be available as input/outputs inside the Grid itself

[antic604]

I wouldn't call those nested in that other than convenience it is no different that putting then before and after the Grid device... be cool if there was a 3rd slot and any devices dropped in that one would be available as input/outputs inside the Grid itself

No. There's literally FX nesting slot on The Grid device, which means any modulators added to The Grid (in its modulators panel or within The Grid itself) can modulate nested devices' parameters (which wouldn't be possible for devices before/after The Grid); and you can save The Grid + devices nested within it as a patch.

I'm not sure why this has to be explained to seasoned Bitwig user?

The Grid is just another (class) of Bitwig devices and all the usual workflow and limitations apply.

[pdxindy]

I wouldn't call those nested in that other than convenience it is no different that putting then before and after the Grid device... be cool if there was a 3rd slot and any devices dropped in that one would be available as input/outputs inside the Grid itself

No. There's literally FX nesting slot on The Grid device, which means any modulators added to The Grid (in its modulators panel or within The Grid itself) can modulate nested devices' parameters (which wouldn't be possible for devices before/after The Grid); and you can save The Grid + devices nested within it as a patch.

I'm not sure why this has to be explained to seasoned Bitwig user?

The Grid is just another (class) of Bitwig devices and all the usual workflow and limitations apply.

It doesn't need explaining... I was saying I would like a 3rd slot like say on Delay that allows devices inside the feedback path. In this case it would allow devices to be wired inside the grid via an input/output module that gets created for each device dropped in the nested zone.

[u-u-u]

I wouldn't call those nested in that other than convenience it is no different that putting then before and after the Grid device... be cool if there was a 3rd slot and any devices dropped in that one would be available as input/outputs inside the Grid itself

No. There's literally FX nesting slot on The Grid device, which means any modulators added to The Grid (in its modulators panel or within The Grid itself) can modulate nested devices' parameters (which wouldn't be possible for devices before/after The Grid); and you can save The Grid + devices nested within it as a patch.

I'm not sure why this has to be explained to seasoned Bitwig user?

The Grid is just another (class) of Bitwig devices and all the usual workflow and limitations apply.

It doesn't need explaining... I was saying I would like a 3rd slot like say on Delay that allows devices inside the feedback path. In this case it would allow devices to be wired inside the grid via an input/output module that gets created for each device dropped in the nested zone.

Maybe they should do an FX Slot module. Just a square with an FX Slot area and audio+note in + out. Although I'm not sure whether notes can be handled like this inside the grid and how it would affect polyphony (maybe if the module would be available only for Mono Grid).

[pdxindy]

Maybe they should do an FX Slot module. Just a square with an FX Slot area and audio+note in + out. Although I'm not sure whether notes can be handled like this inside the grid and how it would affect polyphony (maybe if the module would be available only for Mono Grid).

Yeah... I was figuring Mono Grid only (until Bitwig adds per voice FX )

[DavidCarlyon]

Anyone know when this is going to be in beta? Looking forward to the grid, though at this rate bitwig for me is going to be an 'inspiration' machine....will most likely just use it with internal stuff (which i actually like)
It really hasnt been cutting it as an all round DAW for me lately, but def wanna keep my 'not subscription subscription' going as the grid looks really fun.

[pdxindy]

Anyone know when this is going to be in beta?

no... I assume 2.5 must be final and released first... so maybe 1-2 weeks for first v3 beta

[fold4]

The strange thing with Isotonik Signal is, instead of just using the data flow visuals of Max, they put their own on top of it and that way hide the most interesting power of Max away from the user. The user is now double dependant on Isotonik and Ableton/Cycling74... The left to right flow might be more familiar than the top down of Max for a lot of people, but the price is too high (not the money they ask for)... The Grid looks like a much more flexible solution than Signal ever will be...

Jumping in a little late on this...

Max has a top down + right to left flow. It's completely counter-intuitive (unless perhaps you use a right to left writing system.) Why the flow can't just follow the cables...?

A large part of the point of Signal is to abstract that away and allow you to just get on with building useful things. Also it's not left to right as far as I can tell. It follows the cables. Which makes much more sense than a directional flow because it matches how you would patch things together in the real world.

I don't get how strange precedence rules which require you to think in non-intuitive ways give you more power than a straight "follow the cables" patching system. What exactly can you do with one that you cannot with the other?

I'm also not sure how The Grid will be more flexible than Signal (nor the other way around.) They look like very similar things to me.

[Tj Shredder]

Max is as well just follow the cables... Only the inputs are on top of an object and the outputs are on the bottom of the object. In Signal (and Reaktor) the inputs are left, the outputs right... You are absolutely free to place your objects where you want (for example from left to right...)
The right to left in Max has nothing to do with signal flow, its the event order... In software there is no such thing as „at exactly the same time“, a defined event order helps solving problems which could arise because of that...
Anyway my point is, hiding the best parts of Max to not confuse the user might be helpful for some users, but you could as well simply explain that you can use simplified objects without hiding the good parts and have better results as soon you loose your fear...; - )
As business model it seems to work though... But we will get something better with the grid...

[pdxindy]

I'm also not sure how The Grid will be more flexible than Signal (nor the other way around.) They look like very similar things to me.

Can you build synths in Signal?

The fundamental benefit of the Grid is it is part of the core Bitwig. It is not something attached on the outside. The Grid being part of the core application is one integrated workflow. With Live you have Live, M4L, Signal, all different environments with different logic and visuals.

And like M4L devices, Signal also has to live inside the limitations of Live. For example, there are many M4L modulation devices like LFO's etc. But they cannot match the easy workflow of Bitwig. So in theory M4L is amazingly powerful for modulation, but in practice nowhere near as fluid and easy to work with as Bitwig.

[anttimaatteri]

I'm also not sure how The Grid will be more flexible than Signal (nor the other way around.) They look like very similar things to me.

yeah.
one should just imagine native instrument would build a daw around reaktor from within its core , ok it will never happen but its a funny idea.^^

[Tj Shredder]

Since ages I had that dream to build a DAW in Max/MSP. Bitwig silenced that stupid idea...