Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
yul
KVRian
918 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:17 am

Hi! Anyone would know of examples of hardware or softsynths that has this behaviour?

I believe this would be most present in discrete analogs mono's where a capacitor being discharged is re-engaged mid way.

Just going through my plugins and most if not all reset the EG's...

Looking back at my recent HW, I believe most also did reset the EG's..

Would you say that modern recreations like Diva, Repro, Legend, Monark etc would allow for this behaviour?

Thanks!

yul
KVRian
918 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:12 am

So the technical term is RTZ (Reset to Zero)..which I should have remembered from when having my Minilogue. Anyhow, any recommendations on synths that DO NOT reset to zero?

From this link it looks like there are some gaps still:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... &t=51922

Thanks!

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18418 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:21 am

Minimoog. In fact, most analog monophonics don't do it AFAIK, or some also have an option for it (more rarely).

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jancivil
KVRAF
18839 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:52 pm

hence Monark 'allows for this behavior'. Probably the others in that question, can't say from direct experience.

yul
KVRian
918 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:31 pm

Thanks a lot guys so it looks like non-rtz isn't really common in hw aside from Moog and possibly Arp and maybe a few polys like Jupiter etc...

It seems really useful anyhow.

I will give Diva and Arturia demo a shot to find out as it seems to be able to pull it off in poly.

It's odd that this isn't too common as it seems like a nice thing.

Cheers

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
18418 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:46 pm

I think Oberheim polyphonics also had the "singing envelopes" behavior when using the reassign voice mode.

adamtrance
KVRian
743 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:29 pm

Viper can do this when if you set the polyphony to mono mode
http://www.adamszabo.com/ - Synths, soundsets and music

AnX
KVRAF
4929 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:06 pm

excuse my ignorance, but is this the same as mono/legato?

colonel_mustard
KVRist
99 posts since 24 Apr, 2019

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:14 pm

AnX wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:06 pm
excuse my ignorance, but is this the same as mono/legato?
Similar territory, but that's to do with triggering the envelope (or not) and I think the OP is interested in where it starts from?

Octatrack has options here, for setting envelopes to be in 'analog' or 'retrigger' mode - 'analog' being pick-up-where-you-left-off behaviour, as I understand it. Probably other Elektron boxes have similar options, but I don't know the others.

AnX
KVRAF
4929 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:16 pm

you can do this with an MSEG that allows you to set start/loop point maybe?

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aciddose
KVRAF
12256 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:27 pm

Xhip has always worked that way. Honestly the only synthesizers that have such behaviors are not based upon analog subtractives but rather based upon samplers from the 90s. They don't use fixed voices and don't have free-running oscillators, envelopes, LFOs and so on. Sadly it's very common and the main reason software subtractives remained of such poor quality for so long.

https://soundcloud.com/xhip/visit_by_luciferahx

Not only does Xhip use free-running independent voices (like any real analog polysynth) it actually uses "voices" which are completely independent monophonic synthesizers. Therefore it's also fully multi-timbral. The linked soundcloud clip is played from a single instance!

Image

The Book of Xhip 13:37:
Do not reset thy voice state under command of any arbitrary event; do so only under direct command of the LORD (user) and maintain the sanctity of our most holy of parameters in fulfillment of his master plan.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
2809 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:58 am

aciddose wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:27 pm
Not only does Xhip use free-running independent voices (like any real analog polysynth) it actually uses "voices" which are completely independent monophonic synthesizers. Therefore it's also fully multi-timbral.
In this case it could be a snap to make it MPE compatible...

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aciddose
KVRAF
12256 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:24 am

I've removed some ranting: tl;dr = it's not that easy, no.
Moved the rant here: https://pastebin.com/RKt7Scmi

I think it's best to stick to doing one or two things very well rather than attempting to do absolutely everything at once poorly. Being too general-purpose in my opinion generally makes software much harder to use.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.

yul
KVRian
918 posts since 26 Sep, 2002 from Montreal, CANADA

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:18 am

Aciddose, thanks for the heads up!!

Xhip is one of my top go to synths ever and was not able to pick up on this marvelous feature...sorry!!

I did try the voice recycle option but overall it wasn't too obvious with the envelopes just on the amp.

I guess I will try with the pitch or filter mod to really make it come out.

Thanks so much!!

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Urs
u-he
23754 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Re: Enveloppes that do not reset the attack

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:42 am

ACE and Bazille have a "singing envelopes" switch.

Diva and both Repros work like this by default.
Last edited by Urs on Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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