Wagtunes Production Music

[Distorted Horizon]

I close my eyes and I'm in a jungle.. Maybe near some aztec ruins..

[wagtunes]

I say go original and dig into your own influences and.personality to find a voice that is distinctive.

But don't re-invent the wheel. It's a trap. Agree or disagree?

I think things evolve and are reinvented and made original all the time. Sometimes its just a matter of mixing and matching in ways that wasnt done before. I always liked the opera scene from Hannibal and what Ridley Scott did. I think it turned out more memorable than the film itself. I don't think you will find a crime thriller made in the 80s that used such a long sequence of a staged opera scene to prep the story line.

Which is essentially how we got Goth Metal, Symphonic Metal, Rap Metal and on and on. People just took two things that didn't go together, traditionally, put them together and came up with a new genre.

Problem is, pretty much everything has been done. Certainly I'm not talented enough to think of two genres to stick together that haven't already been mixed together. I mean, I think we even have Polka Metal.

Truth is, if I were THAT talented and that much of a visionary, I would have made it in the business I was originally trying to make it in.

All I'm trying to do right now is write similar stuff to what's "supposedly" selling on these library music sites (not that I really have any way of knowing) and hope that I can get a piece of the pie. That I'm enjoying what I'm doing (this isn't really that hard next to writing a full blown prog rock piece) is gravy. That should keep me motivated enough to do this even if things don't take off right away.

[wagtunes]

I close my eyes and I'm in a jungle.. Maybe near some aztec ruins..

So is there anything you think I should add?

[telecode]

I say go original and dig into your own influences and.personality to find a voice that is distinctive.

But don't re-invent the wheel. It's a trap. Agree or disagree?

I think things evolve and are reinvented and made original all the time. Sometimes its just a matter of mixing and matching in ways that wasnt done before. I always liked the opera scene from Hannibal and what Ridley Scott did. I think it turned out more memorable than the film itself. I don't think you will find a crime thriller made in the 80s that used such a long sequence of a staged opera scene to prep the story line.

Which is essentially how we got Goth Metal, Symphonic Metal, Rap Metal and on and on. People just took two things that didn't go together, traditionally, put them together and came up with a new genre.

Problem is, pretty much everything has been done. Certainly I'm not talented enough to think of two genres to stick together that haven't already been mixed together. I mean, I think we even have Polka Metal.

Truth is, if I were THAT talented and that much of a visionary, I would have made it in the business I was originally trying to make it in.

All I'm trying to do right now is write similar stuff to what's "supposedly" selling on these library music sites (not that I really have any way of knowing) and hope that I can get a piece of the pie. That I'm enjoying what I'm doing (this isn't really that hard next to writing a full blown prog rock piece) is gravy. That should keep me motivated enough to do this even if things don't take off right away.

What do you think is it that is "selling" on these library sites? Music to accompany film is made by a lot of people who are willing to do it for next to nothing to get exposure. Film makers are fully aware of that are take full advantage of that.

[wagtunes]

I say go original and dig into your own influences and.personality to find a voice that is distinctive.

But don't re-invent the wheel. It's a trap. Agree or disagree?

I think things evolve and are reinvented and made original all the time. Sometimes its just a matter of mixing and matching in ways that wasnt done before. I always liked the opera scene from Hannibal and what Ridley Scott did. I think it turned out more memorable than the film itself. I don't think you will find a crime thriller made in the 80s that used such a long sequence of a staged opera scene to prep the story line.

Which is essentially how we got Goth Metal, Symphonic Metal, Rap Metal and on and on. People just took two things that didn't go together, traditionally, put them together and came up with a new genre.

Problem is, pretty much everything has been done. Certainly I'm not talented enough to think of two genres to stick together that haven't already been mixed together. I mean, I think we even have Polka Metal.

Truth is, if I were THAT talented and that much of a visionary, I would have made it in the business I was originally trying to make it in.

All I'm trying to do right now is write similar stuff to what's "supposedly" selling on these library music sites (not that I really have any way of knowing) and hope that I can get a piece of the pie. That I'm enjoying what I'm doing (this isn't really that hard next to writing a full blown prog rock piece) is gravy. That should keep me motivated enough to do this even if things don't take off right away.

What do you think is it that is "selling" on these library sites? Music to accompany film is made by a lot of people who are willing to do it for next to nothing to get exposure. Film makers are fully aware of that are take full advantage of that.

Yes, I know. I'm fully aware of that. What else am I supposed to do exactly? Who's going to hire me to do a custom score for their movie and pay me thousands of dollars?

[Skupje]

Youre right pop music is dead simple, its a measure not a crime. Have you ever thought about changing your instrumentation in order to sound more digital? Like create a banger?

[wagtunes]

Youre right pop music is dead simple, its a measure not a crime. Have you ever thought about changing your instrumentation in order to sound more digital? Like create a banger?

Well, right now I'm trying to put together an album of ambient tracks. But I will consider your suggestion for the future.

[Etienne1973]

Enjoyment is the sign of a good fit between that industry and you
You can reduce trial&error by ripping some "reference" library tracks in your genre using Audio Hijack, and then comparing those reference tracks with yours using MetricAB. I do that. It can be quite eye-opening!!

Is the goal of comparing to a reference track to match the mix and Sonic spectrum to other tracks in music library or is the goal to adjust arrangements, chords, writing to other tracks in the library?

If the latter, I think he should go with his initial instincts and try to aim for making his music as individualistic and original and like no one else's in library. I.e. aim for a specific use where he has an advantage over others.

Wag.. keep your head into how someone who is working on a film based project is thinking. They just spent maybe 6 or 12 months working on this thing. The last thing they want to do is jepordize it by digging into a cesspool of generic music that may have been used in other works. The end result is , their film work is competing for limited eyeballs and attention span of viewer. Using music that can be easily linked to another work always carries the great risk that the viewer will be lost while watching the work and their mind will go off into "where have I heard this before? Is sounds so familiar?". Once that happens you just undermined your entire work.

The other thing to keep in mind is, creative people are quasi small business owners and operators. They also know other creative people and how to reach other creative.people and they usually offload work amongst themselves. It's no different than if you were to want to release a CD and the first person you turn to is a graphic designer you already known who is in your immediate circle of aquantances or in your oommunity.

So.. spinning out generic stuff .. there is a good chance they will already know.someone who can spew it out. What they won't have is highly specific stuff that can be directly linked to the artwork they are making.

For example, someone making a doc about Quakers or Mormons... They will be very easily able to find someone who can give them moody synth pad incidental music that's original for the work they are making and most probably at a very good or even free price. What they can't find easily is going to be highly specific music that links to the narrative text in the film work . E.g. original Mormon music from the late 1800s and stuff like that.. So if you happen to be the one that knows what that is and how to make it...you probably got a client.

I say go original and dig into your own influences and.personality to find a voice that is distinctive.

@Telecode: I've read your post a second time. Now I see. It makes a lot of sense.

[Michael L]

^^^ MetricAB compares mixes:
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/prod ... ricab.html

[wagtunes]

Of course you want to have your own sound. But trying to create a track that's going to meet a specific need is virtually impossible because you don't know what the need is going to be in advance. Again, these aren't custom jobs where the customer says, "This is what I want." These are tracks amidst thousands of other tracks that you're hoping will interest somebody who is looking for some kind of music for some kind of project they're working on.

Believe me, when the day comes that I can pick and choose my clients and make thousands of dollars for one piece of music, I'll be done with library music sites for good.

[Etienne1973]

I think you're right, Wagtunes. Personal trade mark (own sound) is only the cherry on the cake not the foundation. But I guess that's not what Telecode is talking about.

[wagtunes]

I think you're right, Wagtunes. Personal trade mark (own sound) is only the cherry on the cake not the foundation. But I guess that's not what Telecode is talking about.

What he's talking about is creating a specific sound for a specific client that is uniquely yours and will ultimately be uniquely his when he presents his video. He's not going to get that going to a library music site.

So my question to him is this. Is he telling me I should forget about getting involved with a library music site like Music Vine and instead try to market myself independently and try to pick up custom clients that I can charge lots of money for a unique track that ONLY they will get?

[Skupje]

From all these standards if you could pick just one, which one will it be?

[wagtunes]

From all these standards if you could pick just one, which one will it be?

Pick just one what? Site, song? What?

[Unaspected]

Okay, after reading some of the comments and suggestions, what was liked and not liked, I came up with this track. It is very minimalist. In fact, it's 2 tracks. An evolving soundscape and assorted gongs and that's it.

If you think it's too bare, let me know. Adding things won't be a problem. Personally, I like this a lot. Has a real creepy feel thanks to the Lydian Augmented scale that I used. Works really well for what I was trying to achieve.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim/haunted-house

I don't think it's too minimal. I like the vibe but I have a couple of suggestions.

As you suggest, it's two tracks. So I would split the intro and outro as its own thing and work on that separately.

My favourite section is the pad that comes in around 0.44. Everything during this section is working except I would consider replacing the cymbal around 1.43 with a low and slow wood rattling over metal bars sound. Whilst the current sound does break up the track, it steals focus for a moment. That's the kind of spot effect that post production might add.

All the other sounds in that section are working just fine.

You could run an additional mix using a vocoder so you have a third mixer channel that is the pad modulated by the more percussive stick - and mix that low so that it bridges the gap and glues the sounds together.

I'm not sure about the other section - the intro and outro. You've created a nice melody, where the sounds are asking questions and answering them - but you might have given it a touch too much personality. Something more minimal might work better here.

So, really you've created something that you can split in two and maximise on your productivity.