Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[Reefius]

to give some more numbers, without going too much in detail: When your plugin gets cracked, the sales drop from 100% to 20-30% (!). We had this multiple times (nexus f.e) and its always the same.

There are many developers who suffer from piracy, but I don't hear them complaining that they lose up to 80% sales because of it. Stop thinking that every pirated copy is a lost sale, because that is the biggest BS ever. It's just an excuse to squeeze more money out of your paying customers, which will then result in even more piracy.

[GMusic]

It would be interesting to know, how much kickback, if any, Steinberg gets from product sales from companies who use their Elicenser.

[The Sarge!]

stop with the threats that when changing to dongle you Avenger will not use any more

I'm probably alone here but I supported the dongle from the start.

you never walk alone
as mentioned a few pages before, I´m okay with dongle both versions are running here perfect (Cubase and UVI)

[tatanka]

What will happen with existing 1.5 licenses after you changed copy protection, will they still be useable without restrictions and copy protection will only affect new 2.x Versions ?

[metaside]

to give some more numbers, without going too much in detail: When your plugin gets cracked, the sales drop from 100% to 20-30% (!). We had this multiple times (nexus f.e) and its always the same.

There are many developers who suffer from piracy, but I don't hear them complaining that they lose up to 80% sales because of it.

I honestly never saw any real stats about this. It would be interesting to see the curve of sales over time from release until some time after it getting cracked. Reading that sales fall from 100% percent to 20-30% of course makes me wonder if that counts in the natural decline of sales due to the product getting older and, especially, new products by other developers getting released. I can't really imagine that it's really an 80% difference if you count all of that in, but I would be absolutely willing to be convinced. Should only take a few seconds to plot the data if some dev would be willing and others could fill in the events.

[msvs]

to give some more numbers, without going too much in detail: When your plugin gets cracked, the sales drop from 100% to 20-30% (!). We had this multiple times (nexus f.e) and its always the same.

There are many developers who suffer from piracy, but I don't hear them complaining that they lose up to 80% sales because of it. Stop thinking that every pirated copy is a lost sale, because that is the biggest BS ever. It's just an excuse to squeeze more money out of your paying customers, which will then result in even more piracy.

Its not. protection is necessary to run a business and not have to close doors because of long term low sales. There are ongoing costs each month.

Stop thinking that every pirated copy is a lost sale,

funny side story... we had so much customers, mailed our support because of the "remove write protection" error popup in Avenger. Well this popup is caused, when the crack was installed on the machine. However, its easy to remove the error, but this proves that there are indeed pirates, who wanted a newer version with more expansion choices and turned into legit buyers. If those newer versions would have been around for free too, I doubt they would have bought it.

[msvs]

t would be interesting to see the curve of sales over time from release until some

well, its a steep curve down, I can tell you

[noiseboyuk]

Manuel, several people have asked about using a software elicenser, grateful if you could comment on this.

well, if Soft Elicener would be safe, we would have nothing against this option. But afaik, using this unsecure option its the only reason, that elicenser protected software is getting cracked (see Cubase10). Correct me if I am wrong.

I honestly don't know the stats Manuel. But I do know that Steinberg are currently coming up with a new solution to replace the existing elicenser model (they have gone on the record with this). Might be worth a chat with them?

As it is, I use Cubase Elements on the laptop almost exclusively, because it can work with the soft elicenser.

[tatanka]

What will happen with existing 1.5 licenses after you changed copy protection, will they still be useable without restrictions and copy protection will only affect new 2.x Versions ?

I would really like to get a clear answer on this cause it will of course influence future decisions in case of Avenger (does buying new expansions makes any sense for example)

[chk071]

If soft eLicenser was as secure as the dongle, there wouldn't be a need for the dongle.

[Amram]

Microsoft not using dongle and Apple no .
are they loosing customers ? no
they are just growing and growing.
have you thought about the existing customers that are not happy with the dongle and will disappear?
but if you thinking about dongle maybe you should make it hybrid something like Trueno synth.

[HoRNet]

Just to point out, we make more than 1k sales each month, I don’t know if this accounts for “almost no sales”

Saverio

hmm, there where I often hang up, I´ve never heard about Hornet-PlugIns...
but nice to hear, that your company is so successful that you have over 12000 saled items year after year

Sure I know we are still unknown (we are working on it) but the market is so big we still get our small slice to be precise last month we sold 1267 different licenses (including free plugins) at an average of 8€ per sale

[noiseboyuk]

If soft eLicenser was as secure as the dongle, there wouldn't be a need for the dongle.

I've just had the briefest of searches (I hate even doing that) and all the first dubious results up are for Cubase 10 Pro, which is dongle-protected. Logically it makes sense that a physical dongle is more secure, but based on what I just saw the point may well be moot.

This perhaps cuts to the heart of the issue. If everything gets cracked in the end, I guess all CP does is buy the developer time. And that's not to be sneezed at, time being money and all.

AFAIK, iLok products are the most secure. But Pro Tools is now availble as iLok Cloud, so even they are not being tied to a physical iLok any more.

Back to Avenger - I'd hope that if we're looking at a year or so before Avenger 2 appears, that a better solution can be found than a one-license per elicenser, as it would likely be the end of my road with the product too. I have every developer sympathy with piracy, but the fact is that I can use products from Spectrasonics, Native Instruments, U-He, iZotope, Waves and many many more without a physical dongle, and business-wise they all seem to be doing just fine. I do like to run everything on both the main rig and laptop, so its a significant strike against. As it is, Avenger 1.5 will be an oustanding product for years to come.

[Verde]

I dont know U-HEs copy protection at all, but however, we dont have the manpower to make such a thing.

@msvs
I can remember reading a thread by U-He, I think it was even here on KVR, where he explained his copy protection in detail and was giving a lot of information about it. It seems like it is a very effective protection that is relatively easy to implement for the developer and it's completely hassle free for the buyer (enter serial number, done). He also said somewhere that he has a closed forum where he talks with other developers about the protection and where he gives information about it. Perhaps you could get in touch with him? I'm sure he'd be willing to help. Before paying license fees to Steinberg and going the controversial dongle route, I'd feel this would be an option to at least have a close look at.

I know that U-He's approach and the ease of use (and the super friendly support) have turned me into a fan of theirs. Not saying I don't understand your frustration. But I feel there are other ways out than the road you have currently set your eyes on. Good luck!

[Amram]

The best thing is to do it Hybrid.
Give Avenger some hardware like Trueno synth .than avenger will be more light on the cpu and the sound will be more rich.