2CAudio Breeze | 2.5 | Simple. Light. Pristine. Intelligently Adaptive.

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jbraner wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:11 pm Hi,
I'm just finally getting to trying the new beta Precedence and Breeze 2. I'm just getting my head around the links and multi instance editing - this is cool!!

My question is this:
What is this setting on Breeze 2.5?
Image

I don't see a Breeze 2.5 manual, so I can't find it.
Thanks.

Here's the relevant info (and more) from the updated manual (which is not posted yet):
Distance Link DSP Mode

Overview


The Distance Link DSP mode is a special operation mode where the entire Breeze 2 algorithm is retuned to be optimized for and responsive to changes to the Distance parameter. The traditional Mix parameter is replaced with a Distance parameter and changes to it not only effect wet/dry balance, but also effectively cause the entire algorithm to update appropriately to augment the sense of distance and depth created by the algorithm.

In a real physical acoustic space if impulse responses are taken at different locations within the space, or the microphone position is kept static but the sound source changes position, the resulting impulse responses are never the same. Each position has its own unique impulse responses and embedded within these impulse responses are psychoacoustic cues that help establish distance, depth and positional cues. In traditional music mixing methods of using a shared reverb instance on sends, the impulse response is effectively identical for all instruments in the mix and the only variable is wet/dry mix as controlled by the gain values on each send that is feeding the shared reverb instance on the FX bus. This is rather crude approximation. It is improved quite significantly by using a tool such as Precedence on all track inserts, but even then, ideally many aspects of the reverb’s internal “secret sauce” should change and update in response to position information.

This is what the Distance Link DSP mode achieves. The simple act of changing the Distance Value will produce an infinite variety of impulse responses from Breeze; all with the proper “secret sauce” DSP changes that help establish depth in the mix depending on the Distance value. Moreover, we use “impulse response” here loosely; the entire process is actually algorithmic and variable with time due to modulation as would occur in the real world. Thus we have an infinite set of positions within the same general space, each of which is already an infinitely variable time-varying process!

Tip: Distance Link DSP Mode effectively creates an infinitely time-varying Algorithmic Multiple Impulse Response system.

Distance Link DSP Mode Additional Parameters

When using the Distance Link DSP Mode, a few additional expert parameters are available on the Main page of the GUI as well as on the “Big Time View” of the GUI:

• Mix Mode
• PD Adjust
• DR Adjust
• Angle
• P-Mode

Mix Mode

On the lower right of the Main Page of the GUI when in Link Mode, you will find a switch GUI element. This is the same functionality that is achieved by the clicking on the Mix/Balance label in the Standard Mode.

• Left Position = Mix Mode: In this mode no additional processing is applied to the direct sound. It remains dry, and is mixed unaltered with the wet output of the full Breeze engine.
• Right Position = Balance Mode: In this mode additional spatial processing is applied to the direct sound. The direct sound itself is also spatially enhanced, augmenting its sense of depth. This “enhanced direct energy” result is mixed with the wet output of the full Breeze engine.

Tip: The Balance Mode can be particularly effective with the Breeze Chamber Alg Modes on all source types including transient material such as drums. It can also work quite well on orchestral instruments with slower attacks such a string ensembles when using the Breeze Hall Alg Modes.

PD Adjust

Pre-Delay Adjust replaces the normal Pre-Delay parameter found on the Main Page of the GUI when using Link Mode. In the Standard Mode Pre-Delay is always simply set exactly the value the user specifies via the Pre-Delay parameter. In Link Mode, an appropriate Pre-Delay is set for the user according the current Distance and Size parameter values and a few other things. This takes the guesswork out the process automatically, simplifying the life the user.

PD Adjust is offered to appease preset designers, tweakers, and control freaks (we mean all of this as a compliment of course) to have additional control over the exact mapping of Distance to realized Pre-Delay.

• Positive values cause Pre-Delay to become larger faster with respect to increases in Distance.
• Negative values cause Pre-Delay to stay smaller longer with respect to increases in Distance.

As an example, if a particular preset has strong negative Contour values, and strong positive Shape values it will typically have quite a slow attack envelope. Such settings may benefit from having lower values of PD Adjust to keep the total time it takes to reach the peak of impulse response a little shorter.

DR Adjust

Direct Reflected Adjust provides advanced users and preset designs the ability modify exactly how the Distance parameter value changes the energy balance between Direct energy and Reflected energy. In simplistic terms this can be thought of as remapping a particular Distance value to a given wet/dry mix value. It should be noted that 50% Distance does not typically create the same result as 50% Mix. The Distance mapping is done in a manner that maximizes the useful range of the parameter, and achieves the most useful results possible when paired with Precedence. The default value is our starting recommendation, but DR Adjust allows this to be further customized to user taste:

• Positive values cause the signal to become “weter” faster, at smaller Distance values.
• Negative values cause the signal to stay “dryer” longer with respect to increases in Distance.

In real physical spaces changes to the Direct to Reflected Energy Ratio with respect to Distance would also depend on various properties of the enclosed acoustic space such as its size, geometry, and building materials; thus there is no exact universal formula that can be applied. As such we offer advanced users the ability to customize this behavior some as desired.

Note: In general, this is an advanced parameter that can normally be left as is found in presets.

Angle

Like Distance, Angle is also a parameter found in Precedence. It is provided with Breeze as well as a matter of convenience so that the value can be changed in either location depending on which GUI editor is currently being used. Angle does introduce some “secret sauce” changes within Breeze as well, though the more prominent effects come from a Linked instance of Precedence in this case.

Precedence Alg-Mode

Like Distance and Angle, Precedence Alg-Mode is also a parameter found in Precedence. It is provided on the Breeze GUI as well as a matter of convenience so that the value can be changed in either location depending on which GUI editor is currently being used. Precedence Alg Mode does introduce some “secret sauce” changes within Breeze as well. Each mode causes some variation to the resulting Breeze DSP algorithms, which are modified a bit to achieve the best possible paring with the current Precedence mode.

Post

First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!

Post

Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Image

Post

jbraner wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:11 pm Hi,
I'm just finally getting to trying the new beta Precedence and Breeze 2. I'm just getting my head around the links and multi instance editing - this is cool!!

My question is this:
What is this setting on Breeze 2.5?
Image

I don't see a Breeze 2.5 manual, so I can't find it.
Thanks.


So, is this what that switch does?
• Left Position = Mix Mode: In this mode no additional processing is applied to the direct sound. It remains dry, and is mixed unaltered with the wet output of the full Breeze engine.
• Right Position = Balance Mode: In this mode additional spatial processing is applied to the direct sound. The direct sound itself is also spatially enhanced, augmenting its sense of depth. This “enhanced direct energy” result is mixed with the wet output of the full Breeze engine.
John Braner
http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
and all the major streaming/download sites.

Post

yup :wink:

Post

experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:59 am
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Did you use a custom install path?

EDIT: And did W10 recognise the installer?

Post

Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:08 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:59 am
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Did you use a custom install path?

EDIT: And did W10 recognise the installer?
it's been a while , but iirc , i had breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
installed first , in the default location ... i then installed the updates
over the first installation ... there were no problems ...

perhaps try a custom install of breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
first , if andrew can make those available ...
Image

Post

experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:43 pm
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:08 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:59 am
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Did you use a custom install path?

EDIT: And did W10 recognise the installer?
it's been a while , but iirc , i had breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
installed first , in the default location ... i then installed the updates
over the first installation ... there were no problems ...

perhaps try a custom install of breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
first , if andrew can make those available ...
That's the difference that I read about with regards to Precedence 1.5 and I'm guessing it's the same for Breeze 2.5.

I originally installed Precedence 1 a while back and it's been working fine. I tried the Breeze demo and that was okay - same with the full version of 2.1. They are both in custom locations as I keep my plugins on a separate drive.

Could you let me know the default location for Breeze? -Because when I go to install, it remembers where I installed Precedence and goes straight there - which would be great if it worked.

Did you have the same warning that I get about an unrecognised publisher when installing the beta? That is another difference to how other 2CAudio products install. The error that FL Studio throws up suggests that the plugin is not installing correctly - so if I can test the location, we can work out whether that is the bug I'm dealing with.

I'll try installing both Breeze 2.5 and Precedence 1.5 at their default locations and see if that can be ruled out as the problem.

Post

Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:50 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:43 pm
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:08 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:59 am
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Did you use a custom install path?

EDIT: And did W10 recognise the installer?
it's been a while , but iirc , i had breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
installed first , in the default location ... i then installed the updates
over the first installation ... there were no problems ...

perhaps try a custom install of breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
first , if andrew can make those available ...
That's the difference that I read about with regards to Precedence 1.5 and I'm guessing it's the same for Breeze 2.5.

I originally installed Precedence 1 a while back and it's been working fine. I tried the Breeze demo and that was okay - same with the full version of 2.1. They are both in custom locations as I keep my plugins on a separate drive.

Could you let me know the default location for Breeze? -Because when I go to install, it remembers where I installed Precedence and goes straight there - which would be great if it worked.

Did you have the same warning that I get about an unrecognised publisher when installing the beta? [ Yes , I did ] That is another difference to how other 2CAudio products install. The error that FL Studio throws up suggests that the plugin is not installing correctly - so if I can test the location, we can work out whether that is the bug I'm dealing with.

I'll try installing both Breeze 2.5 and Precedence 1.5 at their default locations and see if that can be ruled out as the problem.
64bit install :
@ This PC > OS(C:) > Program Files > 2C-Audio ...
Folder for ; Breeze2 > Skins + 4 .dll files
Folder for ; Precedence > Skins + 4 .dll files
Folder for ; Shared > Folder for app + Folder for lib

@ This PC > OS(C:) > Program Files > Vstplugins ...
2C-Breeze2.dll
2C-Precedence.dll

@ This PC > Documents ...
Folder for ; Breeze2 > Presets
Folder for ; Precedence > Presets
Image

Post

experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:31 pm
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:50 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:43 pm
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:08 pm
experimental.crow wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:59 am
Unaspected wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:54 am First up, I love Breeze. The sound is almost hyper-real and there is plenty of scope for creative uses.

I was looking forward to pairing it with Precedence but, unfortunately, I'm getting install errors for Breeze 2.5: Windows 10 x64 doesn't recognise the installer - that's no problem as I let it know it's trusted and it seems to install. All of the items are in the right places - and the installer knew where I had placed Precedence; Few companies seem to achieve this and it's a nice touch - giving a sense of trust.

However, whilst FL Studio 20.5 can see the plugin, opening it leads to critical error messages and the plugin won't load.

I haven't tested Precedence 1.5 yet as I noticed there was an error with custom install locations, mentioned on this forum. Maybe Breeze 2.5 is suffering from the same bug? Though the install for Breeze 2.1 is smooth and Windows recognises the company as legit.

I know these are beta versions so I expected bugs. Hopefully they'll be fixed soon as I can't wait to see what this combo can do!
i have both up and running flawlessly in win 10 / fls 20.5
breeze 2.5
precedence 1.5
Did you use a custom install path?

EDIT: And did W10 recognise the installer?
it's been a while , but iirc , i had breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
installed first , in the default location ... i then installed the updates
over the first installation ... there were no problems ...

perhaps try a custom install of breeze 2.0 and precedence 1.0
first , if andrew can make those available ...
That's the difference that I read about with regards to Precedence 1.5 and I'm guessing it's the same for Breeze 2.5.

I originally installed Precedence 1 a while back and it's been working fine. I tried the Breeze demo and that was okay - same with the full version of 2.1. They are both in custom locations as I keep my plugins on a separate drive.

Could you let me know the default location for Breeze? -Because when I go to install, it remembers where I installed Precedence and goes straight there - which would be great if it worked.

Did you have the same warning that I get about an unrecognised publisher when installing the beta? [ Yes , I did ] That is another difference to how other 2CAudio products install. The error that FL Studio throws up suggests that the plugin is not installing correctly - so if I can test the location, we can work out whether that is the bug I'm dealing with.

I'll try installing both Breeze 2.5 and Precedence 1.5 at their default locations and see if that can be ruled out as the problem.
64bit install :
@ This PC > OS(C:) > Program Files > 2C-Audio ...
Folder for ; Breeze2 > Skins + 4 .dll files
Folder for ; Precedence > Skins + 4 .dll files
Folder for ; Shared > Folder for app + Folder for lib

@ This PC > OS(C:) > Program Files > Vstplugins ...
2C-Breeze2.dll
2C-Precedence.dll

@ This PC > Documents ...
Folder for ; Breeze2 > Presets
Folder for ; Precedence > Presets
Thank you very much for this. I'll report back in this thread later today after testing. :)

Post

I tried the default location and unfortunately got the same result. This is the error message that I keep getting on plugin launch: "Failed to load plug-in instance manager lib. Product is not properly installed".

In addition, this time, the plugin manager saw two plugins, which it called Breeze 2 and Breeze 2_2. When one is selected, they both select - though only the first one selected is then presented in the menu. I tried both and got the same result so I've put Breeze 2.1 back until the issue is fixed, as it must be a beta bug - I've never had issues with any other 2CAudio software.

Post

Breeze 2.5.0 Beta 2 is available for customers.

You can find it here, listed under your Breeze order download:

https://www.designersound.com/mydownloads

Changes:
  • Various Minor Bug Fixes to Multi-Edit/Link/Group topics as reported from Beta 1
  • Windows installer fix to allow custom install paths for all files
  • Custom Menu Objects in the GUI
  • Precedence Link Name Match is now case-insensitive
Please let us know your experience. Thanks.

Post

please add ability to see the changes in values after pushing the ALG random button. Right now they are static and only Time Display is changing

Post

I have a question about Breeze 2 for a long time that is not exactly a problem, does anybody else find the reverb signal being too low and have to crank the send or wet signal a lot?

Post

In.Sight wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:56 am please add ability to see the changes in values after pushing the ALG random button. Right now they are static and only Time Display is changing
Alg Randomize does not change the parameter values. The exact values/coeffs/numbers used by the algorithm math depend on the parameter values AND some additional values. Alg randomize changes these additional values. Parameter values will give general ranges of allowed values, and the alg randomize values (behind the scenes) will give variations within these ranges established by the parameter values. So it's correct that the parameter values do no change...

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