Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
User avatar
Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3635 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:26 am

GaryG wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:27 am
I've nothing against the default GUI just other options fit better on my laptop where I do most stuff nowadays. As opposed to, say, Bitwig which is like rummaging through a dark box of LEDs at times. :)
Is there a theme which is close to Bitwigs design? I might try R6 out then...; - )

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3975 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:47 am

WTF! Acid Clone!!

:)

REAPER has its place. It's a superb Swiss-Army-Knife of a DAW. It can do things that practically no other DAW can with supreme ease. (Like recording in DAT tapes or 4-TRACK outs). Then again it struggles with the most basic of midi stuff. Like routing a few different tracks to kick/snare/hats on the same VST.

I know you think it can do that, and anyone would think it could, but it can't. I put a post up on Cockos about it and people were like, oh yeah, no, it doesn't really do that. Now there may be a way to do it after all, but it takes about >20 minutes to route where as practically every other DAW takes about <20 Secs.

REAPER, like some of the people that use this lovely forum, is just 'wired differently'. :o

Yes, first and foremost it's an audio editor with midi tacked on. It kind of started life as an Acid clone remember?

Comparing it to other DAWs such as Cubase say, for example, is unfair, because that started life as a midi editor with audio kludged on later. Samplitude also started life as an audio editor with midi kludged on later, but I find midi in Samplitude to be excellent. Then again, I think the midi in Ableton is 'ok'.

But REAPER is so much more than an audio editor with midi just kludged on. As I said, it's a swiss army knife that does a lot of things pretty well that most other daws do poorly, in quite a few departments. It's a very handy program to have. I use it a lot for 'comping' and arranging audio stems I made up in other DAWs. I also use it for 'mastering' as well. I can see why a few mastering engineers use it or at least have it in their toolbox. It's fast and lightweight, stable and has many options that you'd probably figure out quite quickly and just 'set and forget' with your general templates. Dunno. But it works for me.

I think by now it's apparent that REAPER is just what it is. It's never going to have a super-duper up to date modern GUI like Cubase. Then again, Steinberg managed to kludge the new interface on to the old interface while pretty much keeping the look and feel of the old one, so maybe there is a way. I think they probably would have done it by now though if it was possible because let's face it, they've got the best coders and graphic designers in the business working in lock-step. I'm happy enough with it and I enjoy the ability to load different themes and just get a different vibe. It's a tool. I have half a dozen other DAWs to get eye candy from.

As for making music in it, I'm sure that lots of people do. Take Dom and Roland for example, a top engineer but also musician and all round creative genius - he uses REAPER, though he said he likes to render everything out and not rely on midi too much, which makes sense. If he can make music like that in there, faster than he can make it in other programs, then I'm sure others could too.

Then again, a band like Pitch Black who use Ableton and who are also creative musical geniuses - well I could see them struggling with something like REAPER, but I'm sure they could pull it out the bag if they had to. The point's been made a million times, but any sufficiently talented producer could use any sufficiently advanced DAW (anything but Babya Logic basically) and it would be indistinguishable from musical magic. Something like that.

Anyway, I like it. And it's great for recording in guitar and bass jams. Apart from all the other multi-track audio recording it can do. I find the midi annoying, not just the clumsy workflow, but the actual midi editor follows its own conventions and I only have the mental mind space to hold all the different parameters for all the different combos needed in the half dozen DAWs or so that I do midi in regularly, from Cubase to EnergyXT to Studio One, to Ableton. Oh and FLStudio (among others). Each of those has from 'best of class' midi editing to 'more than good enough' midi editing, for most musical tasks I want to do.

REAPER is something a bit different. Another tool in the box. And there are so many great things about it, not least the JS Fx. You even got free versions of paid for plugins like Major Tom (albeit without GUI).

Plus it runs absolutely superbly in WINE under Linux as well. I can forgive it a little kludge in the midi department. Having said that, if you want to knock yourself out and make up your own midi templates and routing, it's probably as powerful as anything. I use it that way sometimes for experimental stuff. It's just a bit different that's all.

There's a LUA script I have and all I have to do is hit a hotkey on my keyboard and type in the first couple of letters of the plugin I want, hit enter, and it's loaded in to a new track and named! Super quick <3 seconds.

I'd really love to get my hands on Dom and Roland's setup. I'd pay good money for it in fact. Now that would be interesting...Then again, maybe it wouldn't make sense to anyone but him.


My v5 license is as far as I can go, so I'll be upgrading too, next year at some point.

Still looks like an Acid clone though. WTF? :lol:
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

User avatar
Spencer Maddox
KVRian
583 posts since 19 Oct, 2017 from a state of anxiety

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:48 am

This thread did not take long to get personal and derail. Oh KVR never change.
College Flunkie
Preset Junkie

OrkDadin
KVRer
3 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:19 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:47 am
REAPER has its place. It's a superb Swiss-Army-Knife of a DAW. It can do things that practically no other DAW can with supreme ease. (Like recording in DAT tapes or 4-TRACK outs). Then again it struggles with the most basic of midi stuff. Like routing a few different tracks to kick/snare/hats on the same VST.

I know you think it can do that, and anyone would think it could, but it can't. I put a post up on Cockos about it and people were like, oh yeah, no, it doesn't really do that. Now there may be a way to do it after all, but it takes about >20 minutes to route where as practically every other DAW takes about <20 Secs.
I bite!
Can you link me the discussion in the cockos forum please? I don't understand why what you try to do is not possible.
I had a setup where I did that more or less regularly. Separate midi items on separate tracks going into a single VST instance. (At least I think thats what I did).
Now how conveniently you are able to do that might be a different issue, but with Track tamplates that kind of a non-issue, right?
Spencer Maddox wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:48 am
This thread did not take long to get personal and derail. Oh KVR never change.
YES IT DOES!


I haven't tested Reaper 6 yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. It has been fun for the last 4 versions! :)

edit:
Was this really my first post on KVR? WTF!
Last edited by OrkDadin on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
nineofkings
KVRAF
1772 posts since 9 Apr, 2011

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:32 am

codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:47 am
Then again it struggles with the most basic of midi stuff. Like routing a few different tracks to kick/snare/hats on the same VST.

I know you think it can do that, and anyone would think it could, but it can't. I put a post up on Cockos about it and people were like, oh yeah, no, it doesn't really do that. Now there may be a way to do it after all, but it takes about >20 minutes to route where as practically every other DAW takes about <20 Secs.
Yeah, I share Ork's skepticism. REAPER's track routing is about the most robust out there.

I have an orchestral template which includes Kontakt receiving MIDI, then sending audio back out to the same channel it's receiving MIDI from, for 16 channels. Doing kick/snare/hat is easy.

EDIT: Mostly unrelated but, the new version has a freakin patch bay for routing, and they buried this deep in the changelog?? Why would you not put an entire new feature front and center? Excited to demo. I was another v4 purchaser way back but it's been years and years. They can take $60 more from me at this point.
Last edited by nineofkings on Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

mguerrero90
KVRist
59 posts since 8 May, 2019

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:34 am


Okay, let's assume Ableton is more accessible to 'dumb' people like me and allows me to do the exact same thing that I wish I could do in Reaper, but find to difficult to execute there: is that not actually an argument pro-Ableton?
Yea, ableton is great at some things too, I dont have any money on some bet and I dont win anything convicing anybody that one is better.

Stop baiting me into calling you stupid...

OrkDadin
KVRer
3 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:41 am

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
nineofkings wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:32 am
EDIT: Mostly unrelated but, the new version has a freakin patch bay for routing, and they buried this deep in the changelog?? Why would you not put an entire new feature front and center? Excited to demo. I was another v4 purchaser way back but it's been years and years. They can take $60 more from me at this point.
You are talking about the Routing Diagram? It's mentioned as one of the main features on https://reaper.fm (https://reaper.fm) :)

Not sure how useful that one actually is. One use case I read is that it gives you an overview of all routings at once, in case you forgot about some.

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3975 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:51 am

mgw38 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:39 am
toonertik wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:45 am
I've seen a few who have migrated from PT... others I have seen use Reaper to do pro video work, there a some who use tools like Ableton and Reaper (and other tools.. Samplitude, Acid and other tools, as I do, for specific tasks).
One of the things most people don't realize is that Reaper can do certain things no other DAW can do. The way it allows you to work with multichannel audio beats anything else on the market, including Pro Tools Ultimate. It is the only DAW next to Nuendo that has a functional Wwise integration. And it's channel routing possibilities are just divine.

But boy, is it ugly. :lol:

It's the sort of thing that most people nowadays don't have a need for, but if you have a need for this, you find out pretty quick who your best DAW friends are when you want to just quite simply route those 4 outs from your 4-Track and 'fly' them in in real time to a 'Digital Multitrack'. Doing one or two at a time and going back and doing it again isn't really an option (synch issues), not when you have a program that can do it all in one go.

But it's not just multi-track recording in (and I'm sure if it does 4 tracks with such ease it won't have any problem with 8, 16, 24 etc. if you have the hardware to support the in/out), I remember it being the best of the bunch for recording in DAT tapes. It was just quicker and more elegant.

One might assume that any DAW could just quickly record in a 2-Track DAT, but no, it's not that simple. I set up a template for that particular workflow, which I can now recall with a couple of mouse clicks from the main file menu. Same for my guitar recording setup.

People talk about the workflow of Studio One being fast, and it is. For many many things and many ways of working. But not for all.

Another program that was good for recording in the 4-Track was Ableton iirc. But for some reason, REAPER was better. Not all DAWs are created equally when it comes to stuff like that.

For example, which DAW would you say would be the best to record in live midi on the fly, on 12 channels? Well, there aren't many that can do it, again iirc. Cubase might be able to (haven't tried and didn't have it back then to try it). But out of my dozen or so DAWs, FLStudio came out miles ahead as the winner. Absolutely superb. Could even record in the audio at the same time as well from the keyboard, but again, synch becomes an issue, though you can tighten it up. I forget exactly what I was trying to do now, anyway, it worked. I seem to remember having other issues with midi jitter as well, but... whatevs.

Then again, maybe it shouldn't be such a surprise, FLStudio was originally a midi program with audio tacked on later as well.

People think you are mad or greedy or unfocussed if you use more than 2/3 DAWs, but even if I didn't find FLStudio to be an all 'round great music making/arranging/mixing app, it would be worth having for that one capability alone.

Ditto REAPER with its multi-channel audio ability. You can even run multiple sound cards and interfaces as well. Then there is ReaRoute which is also a thing of genius. If you didn't know you needed it, you won't miss it so much, but when it's the only thing that can save your bacon, you quickly learn to love REAPER.

Sometimes you don't use the program for months and months, but you always come back to it, because there is something that it can do that much better than all the other DAWs.
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

User avatar
digitalboytn
KVRian
1490 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:20 am

Here's one for the haters...

I LOVE REAPER !

It took me until v5 to really dig in and start using it,but I am so glad that I persevered and got my head around it's idiosyncrasies...

Once you get it set up with the right workflow,it's a dream run...

I have some licenses for a few other DAWs,but they only get airplay for specific tasks these days...

The focus with REAPER is on efficiency and it does that so well...

It's fster than a speeding bullet when you get a few customised key commands happening...

Tight coding with the whole x64 install taking up a miserly 11MB !

Native Instruments could learn a thing or two from that coding...

I use the Default Commla theme that was updated for v5...

I have no complaints about REAPER at all and I am grateful to the team of coders who have made it all possible...

Justin's Winamp harvest has been a blessing for us all...

And you want to know something else ?

In all of the time I have been using REAPER,it has never crashed !

Not once...

Thanks guys...REAPER is really appreciated in my musical world :)
Last edited by digitalboytn on Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

codec_spurt
KVRAF
3975 posts since 21 Sep, 2005

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:21 am

With regard to the midi thing in REAPER and trying to trigger one VST on different midi channels via different tracks:

It's not important. I spent days on it. It can't be done. Or at least it couldn't be done back then. But I did come back to the same problem a year or two later after forgetting it was not so easy to do. And I found my own post when searching on Google! :o :help:

It was something I spent days on. It couldn't be done. The whole forum helped me out (the few that answered anyway and confirmed it was not possible because of workflow). Takes me about 10 seconds in EnergyXT and about a minute in most other DAWs. It's just a peculiarity. It's no big deal.

I got over it! :hihi:

It was then that I realised that REAPER probably wasn't best suited to my particular workflow. Well, one of my types of workflow. As I mentioned, I quite like setting up almost kind of semi-modular intricate stuff for midi triggering and REAPER is as good as any for that. Midi workflows represent a lot of use cases. But I have heard a few other people criticise things like this in REAPER, and people who I know know their way around several sequencers. Some of them just gave up after realising REAPER just couldn't do what they wanted.

Anyway, I doubt it's something anyone who thinks it is easy to do, has actually tried (as super simple as it is) - because they would remember what a massive PITA it was.

I've noticed massive glaring 'gotchas' from all my DAWs even after several years of use. I just scratch my head and think: why didn't I notice it couldn't do that before?

It doesn't make me think any less of the DAW or the designers. You have to go with some kind of design when you build a software program, and REAPER gets far more right than it gets wrong. There isn't a DAW on the planet that doesn't have its achilles heel.

I forget now if it was even actually possible or if there was a workaround. Anyway, it wasn't something that could be done in 60 seconds like most other DAWs.

But not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. And I doubt it is something that has changed for the better because it seems to be in the very core midi implementation of the program itself. I might be wrong. No one else seems to find it a problem anyway. Just one particular use case for a certain type of workflow.

The fact that I was the only person asking how to do this extremely simple thing on the whole of the Cockos forum where the same question for many simple problems are asked (and answered) multiple times, led met to believe that yeah, I really was the only person that had probably ever attempted it in REAPER, or else there would have been a few more people tearing their hair out.

It was an anomaly. Happens sometimes...
"One never loves enough" - R.D. Laing.

OrkDadin
KVRer
3 posts since 27 May, 2008

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:32 am

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
codec_spurt wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:21 am
With regard to the midi thing in REAPER and trying to trigger one VST on different midi channels via different tracks:

It's not important. I spent days on it. It can't be done.
Please take the time and dig up that post. I still don't believe your claim that it can't be done.
The only thread that addresses the `multiple midi -> single VST` issue I found is this:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=71923 (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=71923)

And it looks like there are ways to do that with little work involved.

Trancit
KVRAF
2449 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:45 am

nineofkings wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:32 am
...
I have an orchestral template which includes Kontakt receiving MIDI, then sending audio back out to the same channel it's receiving MIDI from, for 16 channels. Doing kick/snare/hat is easy.

...
Did you make good experiences with that...

I didn´t tested it for long time but as I did I had the feeling that with feedback enabled the midi timing wasn´t very solid...

Sounded to me as if some notes were a bit late...

User avatar
soulone82
KVRian
948 posts since 16 Aug, 2010 from almost everywhere...

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:14 am

digitalboytn wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:20 am
REAPER is really appreciated in my musical world :)
Same here!

:party:

SoundPorn
KVRian
952 posts since 24 Jul, 2018

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:53 am

I moved from both Ableton and FL to Reaper and I make hip hop beats. Why? Because Reaper is just easier. I dunno why it get's a knock for midi that's why I chose it over other DAWs because I can put a midi effects plugin like Instachord in front of 2 different synths in the same FX chain and drag and drop the an invisible wire to another track to record midi to one track and audio to another. It's all super easy and efficient.
And the new GUI looks really good and the ability to embed some plugin GUI into the mixer has just begun I imagine the plan is to eventually be able to embedd any vectorized plugin into the mixer and TCP which is next level.
My only griped is I was hoping ReaPack and SWS would just become native to the program.

Izak Synthiemental
KVRian
772 posts since 4 Aug, 2010

Re: Reaper 6.0 Is Live

Post Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:11 am

SoundPorn wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:53 am
I moved from both Ableton and FL to Reaper and I make hip hop beats. Why? Because Reaper is just easier. I dunno why it get's a knock for midi that's why I chose it over other DAWs because I can put a midi effects plugin like Instachord in front of 2 different synths in the same FX chain and drag and drop the an invisible wire to another track to record midi to one track and audio to another. It's all super easy and efficient.
And the new GUI looks really good and the ability to embed some plugin GUI into the mixer has just begun I imagine the plan is to eventually be able to embedd any vectorized plugin into the mixer and TCP which is next level.
My only griped is I was hoping ReaPack and SWS would just become native to the program.
That sounds interesting. Could you make a video / screencast demonstrating your typical workflow in Reaper? Really curious!
http://soundcloud.com/samaritageto

Proper Education Always Corrects Errors

Return to “Hosts & Applications (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.)”