Who produces electronic music and has an album ready?

[Jace-BeOS]

I would like to know more about the talking Hamburger

Still have to figure out, which artist would be ok with an Hamburger reviewing his album. Thinking of Aphex Twin.

(It's a vegan one, by the way!)

Vegan or not, that thing is f**king creepy as f**k.

[Jace-BeOS]

(It's a vegan one, by the way!)

At least you have some level of discernment

is there even such a thing as a "non vegan digital character burger"?

Ha ha, no. Not in my definition of veganism. If it’s made of data, it’s not made from animals.

Some day, maybe someone will figure out how to grow isolated brains (like they’re working on growing just muscle tissue/meat without actual animals attached), and THEN we will need to consider the ethics of usage...

I won’t live that long, because it’s not just the growth part they need to figure out; it’s the ability to sustain it. Ever notice James Cameron’s Terminator doesn’t eat and drink nor have any digestive system...?

That brings me back to the [weirdly on topic] creepy burger: I find that way more creepy than a half-decayed terminator. Unless the half-decayed terminator is spewing sticky yellow goo from its mouth while talking. No, it’s still worse, because what type of insane mad science would create A TALKING HAMBURGER??

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Most of the people who consume "content" actually only want content. They do not want art.
They do not want to think. They just want a steady stream of homogenized shit to stream into their eyeballs so they dont realize content is all they have in their lives and minds.

It makes me sad that I couldn’t find myself disagreeing with you.

I have a real bummer of a perspective on a lot of things.
But to be honest, I think the bright side is that its so bad that there is a clear stratification of creative work in the world. Almost everyone has an innate ability to detect "Art" from "Content", I think. The problem is that many of the youngest of us literally want Content. Literally have instincts molded by and for Content, and dont have patience or curiosity for Art, or real creative process. I think this is happening across many creative forms.

------------------------------------------------

I have a real bummer of a perspective on a lot of things.

highkoo, meet Jace (Just kidding, J )

Truth is that many of us have that same "real bummer of a perspective" on something or other.

Almost everyone has an innate ability to detect "Art" from "Content", I think. The problem is that many of the youngest of us literally want Content. Literally have instincts molded by and for Content, and dont have patience or curiosity for Art, or real creative process. I think this is happening across many creative forms.

Please forgive my lack of clarification in my earlier post. As an almost-48-year-old who has never owned a Twitter account, I fancied indulging my urge to create a quotable sound-byte.

I'm no stranger to the consumption of 'content'; often, the more vapid the better. I will sometimes choose it over 'richer', more substantive options when what I'm looking for is diversion i.e I don't want to put too much energy into something probably more worthwhile; rather, I just want to stop having to expend energy (Intellectual, or otherwise) on what it is I am 'currently' doing Sometimes we just need to eat some junk-food

When I refer to content-creators as somehow different from artists, it is more about intent and attitude. And when I refer to art, in this context, I don't mean that the video (as an example) has to have artistic (in the traditional sense) merit. To my mind, there is a huge difference between someone whose output exists as a means to satisfying an end, rather than someone whose output exists for it's own sake.

The difference between the two, for me, is that a content-creator starts a channel because they want a channel/fame/money/notoriety etc. They then go about making content to fill that channel (Like the empty box, empty cupboard etc). In contrast, the 'artist' starts out with something they need to say/share etc., and then looks for the means/platform with which they can best spread that message/creation etc. The YT content-creator promises to upload weekly, or bi-weekly, and then does so even if they have nothing worth sharing. The YT artist will only post when they have something to share, and don't have the inclination (Nor need the validation) of posting just to remain 'socially' relevant.

[detritusdave]

We are running a bit offtopic, I'm afraid. Back to EM, our "review-bot" and actually your albums.

Waste of time period.

That, of course, proves 100% of the successful content creators on YT to be wrong. Thx for the enlightenment...

Didn't intend to start an OT. But you did use the expression 'content creators', and it did rankle with me.... what's the definition of a successful content creator btw? Hits/likes/advertising revenue?

I'm not a marketing guy in any way. A close friend of mine is, although he doesn't quite grasp the concept of needing to make music without some kind of explicit positive feedback loop from other people... I suspect a lot of people here do understand that, however.

[detritusdave]

"Content creators" existed long before some dickhead decided to start calling them "content creators". Before we just called them by other, more descriptive names, like "film-maker" or "recording artist". It's nothing more than an effort to elevate nobodies, with nothing of actual value to contribute to anything, well beyond their actual status in the scheme of things.

Yup, completely agree. I guess this new term grinds at me as it seems even more bland and just f**king greyer than 'recording artist'...

[BONES]

It's not the term itself that grinds, it's the oxygen thieves it gets applied to these days.

[EMReviews]

Well, the alternative explanation is that your concept was to make a speech-heavy podcast/video review channel sound as obnoxious as you could...which would just be dumb.

It took you quiet some time, but, hey, congats!

[EMReviews]

Spotify has decided. It requires album to contain at least 7 tracks and be 30 minutes long.
Thus, if you have less than 7 tracks, you're not a real musican

What YT was supposed to be for the hobbyists, for those who had an important message, or for those who wanted to teach the world things that cannot be found in books, that's more or less dead now. Commerce is the juice of life that flows in the vessels of this platform and others, 99%.

This is called business. Or, it is the human nature. Humans are always competing with each other for same resources and they want to have more (money, fans, likes) than others. Just don't expect everyone doing everything for free.

Good that we have spotify, now we finally know how the world turns. Honestly, spotify and the likes, they destroyed lives of millions of musicians by applying the music-flatrate system back then. Artists didn't get their 30-50ct per download on digital plattforms anymore, but 10 ct per 10.000 streams and less. Just a handful of DL platforms are left with acceptable rates. Also, a lot small labels quit because of this. So, if I would listen to anyone's opinion about what's value especially regarding music, it's not spotify. But sure, I get the point. But as with music and the genres it's similar with the definition, what's considered an album. I think I mentioned already the 3-tracks albums. So, maybe instead of reviewing albums, we might say from now, we review music packages with at least 30 mins duration. Great new world...


As for the business, well, WE are a good example for there are exceptions. We do the reviews for free (and fun). We are goddamn nerds...

[EMReviews]

what's the definition of a successful content creator btw? Hits/likes/advertising revenue?

I'm not a marketing guy in any way. A close friend of mine is, although he doesn't quite grasp the concept of needing to make music without some kind of explicit positive feedback loop from other people... I suspect a lot of people here do understand that, however.

Depends on the perspective. For a Youtuber success is, if he i.e. makes a living with his channel or gets high from all the attention (my guess, mainly for the teenage folks). For YT aka Google it's a success that the platform lives as long as possible and prosper, since it's their income. From an intellectual or art level we are successful, if we can pour out our ideas to the world and it's a plus, if we get positive response on that or connect with like minded ones. The last is for me and some of my co-nerds. But I'm totally ok with, if someone earns a Fantastillion by doing silly cat vids. As long I'm not forced to see them 24/7, I don't mind (much).

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Well, the alternative explanation is that your concept was to make a speech-heavy podcast/video review channel sound as obnoxious as you could...which would just be dumb.

It took you quiet some time, but, hey, congats!

No. You just don't have a concept. And this was just an approach you thought might even have worked

[detritusdave]

what's the definition of a successful content creator btw? Hits/likes/advertising revenue?

I'm not a marketing guy in any way. A close friend of mine is, although he doesn't quite grasp the concept of needing to make music without some kind of explicit positive feedback loop from other people... I suspect a lot of people here do understand that, however.

Depends on the perspective. For a Youtuber success is, if he i.e. makes a living with his channel or gets high from all the attention (my guess, mainly for the teenage folks). For YT aka Google it's a success that the platform lives as long as possible and prosper, since it's their income. From an intellectual or art level we are successful, if we can pour out our ideas to the world and it's a plus, if we get positive response on that or connect with like minded ones. The last is for me and some of my co-nerds. But I'm totally ok with, if someone earns a Fantastillion by doing silly cat vids. As long I'm not forced to see them 24/7, I don't mind (much).

Ok, I still think you're seeing musicmaking/art/whatever only from a lens of positive feedback from others.... the part where you say 'From an intellectual or art level we are successful, if we can pour out our ideas to the world and it's a plus, if we get positive response on that or connect with like minded ones.' I am not attacking you here, but for some people making music has very, very little to do with receiving positive feedback from likeminded people etc. etc. I guess it depends on what music is to you, why you do it, why you maybe *need* to do it... I have done gigs with people who use making music as a way to replace self-harm/alcoholism... as a way to externalise their shit.... to get a kind of tangential focus on their depressive thoughts... and that works for them. And what better reason to make music...? And, for them doing gigs is about trying to earn a bit of money to pay for their gear. I don't condemn people for whom positive feedback and social interaction are of great importance... however, try and look at it from the other side of the spectrum. Some of us make music because we get f**ked up if we don't....

[EMReviews]

No. You just don't have a concept. And this was just an approach you thought might even have worked

I'd accept your answer, if you'd said, "I guess, you just don't have a concept.". But as someone, who's completely outside of the project, seeing just ripples on the surface, but thinking he knows what everything is about, you sound, with all due respect, between naive and arrogant.

[EMReviews]

Ok, I still think you're seeing musicmaking/art/whatever only from a lens of positive feedback from others.... the part where you say 'From an intellectual or art level we are successful, if we can pour out our ideas to the world and it's a plus, if we get positive response on that or connect with like minded ones.' I am not attacking you here, but for some people making music has very, very little to do with receiving positive feedback from likeminded people etc. etc. I guess it depends on what music is to you, why you do it, why you maybe *need* to do it... I have done gigs with people who use making music as a way to replace self-harm/alcoholism... as a way to externalise their shit.... to get a kind of tangential focus on their depressive thoughts... and that works for them. And what better reason to make music...? And, for them doing gigs is about trying to earn a bit of money to pay for their gear. I don't condemn people for whom positive feedback and social interaction are of great importance... however, try and look at it from the other side of the spectrum. Some of us make music because we get f**ked up if we don't....

Partly I blaim language barriers for that you misunderstood. But on the other hand, when I mentioned "positive response", it should be more or less obvious, that "artists" don't see LIKES or tons of positive comments, fanmails and similar things as the only way of positive response/feedback. If you jam with others, you get your positive response from your other bandmembers too, it flows directly from your ear and eyes into your fingers. Also, positive feedback from others is just one way we "earn" motivation. Every musician, who sits for hours with his guitar, piano or whatever and dives into his own world by making music, is giving himself positive feedback. So, replacing i.e. self-harm/alcoholism, healing yourself from weltschmerz or simply doing music for the sake of making it etc is just one side of the coin. Every artist/musician knows these things, so, when we talked specifically about music in public, about videos on i.e. YT, I didn't think of mentioning this special type of feedback, since it was not really related. I and probably every other true musician/artist gets your point, when you say, let's make music, because we HAVE to. But remember, we also talked about the definition of success and what is the meaning of success. For some it's plain money, for some to sit in the bush on a treestump and play guitar for the birds, for some it's both. From my personal experience success and "positive feedback" are pretty close siblings.

By the way, do you play any "unplugged" instruments?

[Jace-BeOS]

I fully agree with streaming being the last stab into the arteries of working musicians. The chance of making a living on music (or any kind of art) is almost zero anymore, and it was never a healthy chance before (it took massive good luck and connections, regardless of skill and hard work).

Laissez-faire capitalism ruins everything.

Capitalism funds art, but then stabs it in the back, poisons it at the root, chokes it by stabbing it in the throat, and generally exploits it to the point of it not even being art anymore (just product to sell advertising slots).

I’m talking about the music industry, Hollywood film studios, TV networks, YouTube, Flickr...

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

No. You just don't have a concept. And this was just an approach you thought might even have worked

I'd accept your answer, if you'd said, "I guess, you just don't have a concept.". But as someone, who's completely outside of the project, seeing just ripples on the surface, but thinking he knows what everything is about, you sound, with all due respect, between naive and arrogant.

I'm just going by your own words:

viewtopic.php?p=7665048#p7665048

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, we are still twiddling around with some technical issues and we cannot agree commonly so far, yet, what sound we actually want, rather radio voice or gentle 'n soothing. But before being perfect it's more important to start at all. So, things will become smooth with time, I bet. Give it time.

I'm not suggesting that I know everything about what is going on behind-the-scenes. However, you insisting that part of your concept is this overly-slammed voice-over doesn't fit with "we cannot agree commonly so far, yet, what sound we actually want, rather radio voice or gentle 'n soothing".

As I said before, it's just because a few of us have criticised this aspect of your presentation that you'd rather just dig your heels in, and insist that "That's what we wanted all along. It's our concept, maaaan!!!"

but thinking he knows what everything is about, you sound, with all due respect, between naive and arrogant.

Let's just agree that i know very little about anything. What I DO know is that this sounds TERRIBLE!:



And forget the "all due respect". If you are going to insult me, then just do it