MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

[DarkStar]

Nope, it's above my pay grade. I do not have the knowledge.

[jmg8]

I've done some very basic testing, but I seriously mean basic! Haha. There is a lot I wish to know about it, for example how to change the resonance in relation to the frequency or how to set min and max frequencies for each filter.

[operator]

I really hope that MTF (outside of MSF) will get a "graph/response read-out". Yes, one can design a filterstyle inside a VST-Plugin-Analyzer... but designing the filter inside the DAW and instantly check the sound-character aswell as seeing a visual represetation would be much better. IMO...

It is not easy to hear DC Offset, you know ... or even very low energy build-ups at low amplitude...

To Faiky: Try to use LP and PeakAnalog(;q*1.5) in combination. This will give you 3 Parameters which affect each other: Resonance, Character and the q of the PeakAnalog in numeric value)... The range of those Parameters reach from Acidstyle Resonances to a very rounded-off Resonance unlike any other Filter.
The various amount of combinations you can get out of only a LP and a PeakAnalog (or 2 PeakAnalogs) is incredible.

I often use the PeakAnalog as Resonance instead of the regular Resonance of the LP... sometimes pushing the LP Resonance to 30, 50 or even 100% and then carving out a notch by counter dialing the PeakAnalog creats some VERY nice vowel-ish Filters.

I think there is no need for me to post the preset for the above described filter combinations... pretty easy to create them... If someone would like an example for some reason anyway... I´m happy to post one, just ask...



Vojtech wasn´t here for a "some time" now. I´m a little bit concerned, hopefully everything (he and his family) is OK and he only took some holidays (or is just coding the shit out of some new ZDF Filters and needs total silence). I hope MeldaProduction, Vojtech and all of you and your loved ones (and your buisnesses) will get through this mess we´re witnessing right now.

[jmg8]

Operator, do you know the answer to either of my 2 questions above?

Also thanks for the good wishes, my thoughts go out to all of you also.

[operator]

Operator, do you know the answer to either of my 2 questions above?

Also thanks for the good wishes, my thoughts go out to all of you also.

Regarding: min and max frequency: I solved the max and min frequency (e.g. HP ends at 10k and at 20Hz) by using the Frequency as "dummy" value generator and controlling the range by Character (then assign MP to Character and make the slider Exponetial Range!!!)

The Character Control is in percent... that means with some shuffling you can restrict paramter-ranges with the Character Control e.g. f = c*10000
see Preset-->

The preset is a LowPass plus Highpass with seperate frequency control. (LP-Cutoff=Frequency, HP-Cutoff=Character). In the MP I have the Character assigned and made it exponential. You can delete the LP to only have a Highpass filter that has a upper border (10k) and a lower border at 20Hz.

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[jmg8]

Wow, thanks, but after just reading this once, I have a feeling this will make my brain hurt! Haha.
In the help text for MTF there is a mention of "min" and "max" but not sure how to implement them.
I am trying to make 3 LP filters 1st with full range 20hz to 20khz, second with 200hz to 20khz and third with 2khz to 20khz. This way the slope will progressively be steeper the lower the frequency.

[operator]

hmmm... Regarding the resonance to freuqency mapping:

This is what I´m missing the most... I couldn´t come up with an idea... but creating a map/mask (I´m thinking of Harmor or Zebra) only would require a data array including resonance values mapped to frequency values. Maybe the parameter and expressions: Unary Function --> "f01" in combination with Ternary logical functions could help: If A (Freq) is 'x' then B (Resonance in percent) is 'y'... not sure...

(I´m not a DEV! I´m just fishing in the dark... chances are high I make a complete fool out of myself but in the name of good-sounding filter no humiliation is too big. )

[operator]

Wow, thanks, but after just reading this once, I have a feeling this will make my brain hurt! Haha.
In the help text for MTF there is a mention of "min" and "max" but not sure how to implement them.
I am trying to make 3 LP filters 1st with full range 20hz to 20khz, second with 200hz to 20khz and third with 2khz to 20khz. This way the slope will progressively be steeper the lower the frequency.

Parallel or Serial?

EDIT: Of course Serial...

[jmg8]

Serial

[operator]

Like you wrote... probablly the "min" and "max" expression will do the job. And maybe the Unary Function "f01" could come in handy too.

When the MTF came out I hoped that some motivated "math wiz" in the forum could/would create some filters. But still

[operator]

I am trying to make 3 LP filters 1st with full range 20hz to 20khz, second with 200hz to 20khz and third with 2khz to 20khz. This way the slope will progressively be steeper the lower the frequency.

Doesn´t it then have to be (audible ranges):

..........Range ................... Slope in Sum
LP 1: 20hz - 20.000Hz............---> 12db/Oct
LP2: 20Hz - 2000Hz................---> 24db/Oct
LP3: 20Hz - 200hz..................---> 36db/Oct

So they would stack/convolute onto/into each other the lower the frequency gets. And the slopes (12db/oct) would add up to each other and finally reach a slope of 36db/oct. BUT

Is this even possible and does it behave like that? The lowest Filter in the Chain (LP3) will always Filter at 200Hz no matter what and the above unheard spectrum won´t be audible affected by LP1 and LP2 (or only marginaly).
Am I totally wrong and maybe can´t see the obvious...? sometimes I amaze myself how blind I can be .

I would rather have 3 LP spaced only a few Hz apart (but with relative values --> fixed values multiplied by percentages). And by reducing the Cutoff Frequency of all Filters with the Character-Knob, the Filters move further toghether the lower the frequency gets. In the example bellow: The Cutoff Frequencies of the Filters LP1 and LP2 are at 100% 500Hz apart and at 0.1% only 5Hz.
IMPORANT: Use MP or Character to control Cutoff Frequency in the Preset bellow (MP has exponetial range).

I think this would solve the same purpose...

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[jmg8]

You got the idea right but the numbers wrong.
All 3 would go up to 20khz. It's just the min frequency that would be different, so kind of how you had it but backwards. Check my original values again and you will see.
Thanks for looking at this with me, tomorrow I will check out these setting you have shown. Together we will learn (probably slowly) haha

[operator]

You got the idea right but the numbers wrong.
All 3 would go up to 20khz. It's just the min frequency that would be different, so kind of how you had it but backwards. Check my original values again and you will

But wouldn´t the slope then decrease in steepness the lower the Cutoff gets... because at 20k they are all stacked ontop of each other (36dB) and as further they get to 0Hz, one after another will be "eliminated" from the audible spectrum at a specific frequency (2000Hz,200Hz) and the left over slope in the end is only 12dB...

So the steepness of the filter would be higher in the "highs" and lower in the "lows".

Damn maybe it is just to late to think about stuff like that. I need to look at it again tomorrow ...

[operator]

Ok... this is the best I could come up with, but isn´t probably very practicle (see Preset attached):

- Frequency Knob controls Cutoff 1: ........20Hz-20.000Hz
- Q Knob controls Cutoff 2: ..................200Hz-20.000Hz
- Character Knob controls Cutoff 3: ......2000Hz-20.000Hz

- Analog Knob is now the new Resonance for all 3 Filters. (Analog is off)
- MP: LP --> controls all Cutoff Frequencies at the same time (at the moment only "relatively". Could be changed and finetuned by altering the graph under transformation shape)

ATTENTION: I didn´t tested the preset fully! Please turn on the SAFETY LIMITER!

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[werzel]

I am trying to make 3 LP filters 1st with full range 20hz to 20khz, second with 200hz to 20khz and third with 2khz to 20khz. This way the slope will progressively be steeper the lower the frequency.

Doesn´t it then have to be (audible ranges):

..........Range ................... Slope in Sum
LP 1: 20hz - 20.000Hz............---> 12db/Oct
LP2: 20Hz - 2000Hz................---> 24db/Oct
LP3: 20Hz - 200hz..................---> 36db/Oct

So they would stack/convolute onto/into each other the lower the frequency gets. And the slopes (12db/oct) would add up to each other and finally reach a slope of 36db/oct. BUT

Is this even possible and does it behave like that? The lowest Filter in the Chain (LP3) will always Filter at 200Hz no matter what and the above unheard spectrum won´t be audible affected by LP1 and LP2 (or only marginaly).
Am I totally wrong and maybe can´t see the obvious...? sometimes I amaze myself how blind I can be .

I would rather have 3 LP spaced only a few Hz apart (but with relative values --> fixed values multiplied by percentages). And by reducing the Cutoff Frequency of all Filters with the Character-Knob, the Filters move further toghether the lower the frequency gets. In the example bellow: The Cutoff Frequencies of the Filters LP1 and LP2 are at 100% 500Hz apart and at 0.1% only 5Hz.
IMPORANT: Use MP or Character to control Cutoff Frequency in the Preset bellow (MP has exponetial range).

I think this would solve the same purpose...

Code: Select all

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This one has some odd/ interesting characteristics to it!
One thing that I noticed was that, with the mouse hovered over the Character knob and rolling the mouse wheel, the values change at a higher rate than I would like, eg. 12.2>mouse wheel 1 segment> 12.4. At values from 0 to 10% especially, the filtering produces some very interesting effects that would lend themselves to tighter values, possibly even 2 decimals.
Using your previous filter example, I believe it was the HP LP, the Character knob produces a strange jump when crossing past the 0 point. (I've noticed this behaviour a few times with different knobs on different effects, so it may not be preset specific.)
Thanks for posting these, they've been educational (though not completely comprehendable!). Hopefully, with enough examples, we can understand more what this beast is capable of achieving.