3.2 (Beta 1) is OUT!!!

[antic604]

If i could integrate vsts i would really like the grid.

How do you want to integrate them (out of interest)? I am not sure how this would work.

Like so:

I can already modulate parameters in my 3rd party plugins via the Bitwig modulation system.

It's not about modulating plugins, though. In VM you can use Valhalla Plate as a reverb in your patch, i.e. put it on on of the oscillators before they all go to filter; or whatever. VSTs are just another modules INSIDE of modular patch.

[poonna]

I think probably the hardest thing with integrating VST inside the Grid is dealing with polyphonic patches. Multiple instances of the VST need to be loaded, and their parameters need to be kept in sync among all the instances. In some case, this might not be possible. For example, we might load a sample into one instance. Bitwig needs to be aware that a sample is loaded to that plugin (through its GUI), and Bitwig needs to instruct all other instances to load the same sample, too. Not sure if this is technically possible, unless saving and reloading are involved.

[pdxindy]

If i could integrate vsts i would really like the grid.

How do you want to integrate them (out of interest)? I am not sure how this would work.

Like so:

I can already modulate parameters in my 3rd party plugins via the Bitwig modulation system.

It's not about modulating plugins, though. In VM you can use Valhalla Plate as a reverb in your patch, i.e. put it on on of the oscillators before they all go to filter; or whatever. VSTs are just another modules INSIDE of modular patch.

That is monophonic only. Since it is Mono only, the regular devices pane is its own kind of modular grid already. And actually, using the new Selector modes, I could build a poly preset with multiple Valhalla Plates in the signal path and each note will cycle between layers. One can route audio into the Grid from any VST. You can already do most anything you want in Bitwig as is.

[SLiC]

If i could integrate vsts i would really like the grid.

How do you want to integrate them (out of interest)? I am not sure how this would work.

Like so:

I can already modulate parameters in my 3rd party plugins via the Bitwig modulation system.

It's not about modulating plugins, though. In VM you can use Valhalla Plate as a reverb in your patch, i.e. put it on on of the oscillators before they all go to filter; or whatever. VSTs are just another modules INSIDE of modular patch.

It sounds like this could be done with just routing of a VST within the grid (maybe a module for this, routing in and out of the grid- this is just audio routing?) or just having 2 grid module before and after an fx then saved as a rack?

[xbitz]

^^^just a have to modulate a DCOffset(with audio) and routing it back using audio-sidechain (can be created funny feedback loops too), but yepp it won't be poly anyway which is the biggest advantages of grid

[antic604]

If i could integrate vsts i would really like the grid.

How do you want to integrate them (out of interest)? I am not sure how this would work.

Like so:

I can already modulate parameters in my 3rd party plugins via the Bitwig modulation system.

It's not about modulating plugins, though. In VM you can use Valhalla Plate as a reverb in your patch, i.e. put it on on of the oscillators before they all go to filter; or whatever. VSTs are just another modules INSIDE of modular patch.

That is monophonic only. Since it is Mono only, the regular devices pane is its own kind of modular grid already. And actually, using the new Selector modes, I could build a poly preset with multiple Valhalla Plates in the signal path and each note will cycle between layers. One can route audio into the Grid from any VST. You can already do most anything you want in Bitwig as is.

Sure, but:
1) it's a lot of unnecessary work
2) you're constantly going in & out of 4x oversampled environment of the Grid, losing quality especially for audio rate stuff
3) it won't be anymore a Grid patch, but rather a Layer, Selector or Chain, which is not ideal

If I have 3h to work on music per week I don't want to be spending half of it patching DC Offsets and Audio Rates

[pdxindy]

How do you want to integrate them (out of interest)? I am not sure how this would work.

Like so:

I can already modulate parameters in my 3rd party plugins via the Bitwig modulation system.

It's not about modulating plugins, though. In VM you can use Valhalla Plate as a reverb in your patch, i.e. put it on on of the oscillators before they all go to filter; or whatever. VSTs are just another modules INSIDE of modular patch.

That is monophonic only. Since it is Mono only, the regular devices pane is its own kind of modular grid already. And actually, using the new Selector modes, I could build a poly preset with multiple Valhalla Plates in the signal path and each note will cycle between layers. One can route audio into the Grid from any VST. You can already do most anything you want in Bitwig as is.

Sure, but:
1) it's a lot of unnecessary work
2) you're constantly going in & out of 4x oversampled environment of the Grid, losing quality especially for audio rate stuff
3) it won't be anymore a Grid patch, but rather a Layer, Selector or Chain, which is not ideal

If I have 3h to work on music per week I don't want to be spending half of it patching DC Offsets and Audio Rates

1) In most cases it would not be any extra work and might often be less work.

2) You would be constantly going in and out of 4X oversampled environment inside the Grid too... Bitwig cannot control how the VST is functioning.

3)I see nothing less ideal about a Selector patch than a Grid patch.

If I only have 3 hours per week I wouldn't want to be patching complex Grid presets with VST's in them anyway.

I think this is one of those ideas that is mainly about wanting to have no theoretical limitation rather than actually meeting a practical need. You have been expressing lots of frustration the past few days cause Bitwig is not focusing on core functionality and here you are arguing for a rather esoteric capability to be added to a Bitwig instrument.

[SLiC]

I keep seeing posts here where individuals claim to know what 'all/most of the Bitwig users want in the next update' It would be interesting to have a new poll (now that we have what we have in 3.2) to see what users really want (I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want...)

This old poll had nearly 2000 requests - https://www.poll-maker.com/results1906611x31565b0C-51

In reality here on KVR we get the same 20-30 or so people posting!

[antic604]

You have been expressing lots of frustration the past few days cause Bitwig is not focusing on core functionality and here you are arguing for a rather esoteric capability to be added to a Bitwig instrument.

1) It is always more work, having to redesign & rebuild the patch if it wasn't supposed to use VSTs initially and to route the signal out and back in, instead of just patching a cable through a VST host module
2) majority of plugins work at the resolution and audio rate of the host, in this case 4x oversampled Grid
3) Yes, it is - if I'm looking for bass patch, I'll be browsing instrument patches, not containers

And I couldn't care less for Grid. I don't think I ever used it in a project. Just trying to explain why it might be valuable for someone that wants it.

[pdxindy]

You have been expressing lots of frustration the past few days cause Bitwig is not focusing on core functionality and here you are arguing for a rather esoteric capability to be added to a Bitwig instrument.

1) It is always more work, having to redesign & rebuild the patch if it wasn't supposed to use VSTs initially and to route the signal out and back in, instead of just patching a cable through a VST host module

You missed my point completely...

[antic604]

This old poll had nearly 2000 requests - https://www.poll-maker.com/results1906611x31565b0C-51

In reality here on KVR we get the same 20-30 or so people posting!

That's because when I created the poll I posted it on FB, where there's more users. I'm not on FB anymore, but I agree it would be great to do it again. Problem is I'd never thought of asking for yet another EQ or rainbow colours, so the results might not be representative

[pdxindy]

And I couldn't care less for Grid. I don't think I ever used it in a project. Just trying to explain why it might be valuable for someone that wants it.

So you are an expert on the Grid though you never actually use it in a practical sense... carry on!

[antic604]

And I couldn't care less for Grid. I don't think I ever used it in a project. Just trying to explain why it might be valuable for someone that wants it.

So you are an expert on the Grid though you never actually use it in a practical sense... carry on!

I never said I was an expert! I've built my share of patches, know most of the modules and tricks (getting out audio and midi out, for example). I SAID I never used it in a project, so yeah - it's nice, even awesome in many respects, but I've not asked for it and I don't need it for my music.

[Randall P. McMurphy]

Back to an earlier post, if the dual gains and volume knobs in the Tool is to allow for backward compatibility I would definitely consolidate them to one knob, with the ability to update to new device if needed. It is an awkward shoehorn if the only reason the two knobs exist is strictly for backward compatibility.

I'd love a practical reason why there are two different knobs doing the same thing.

[abique]

I keep seeing posts here where individuals claim to know what 'all/most of the Bitwig users want in the next update' It would be interesting to have a new poll (now that we have what we have in 3.2) to see what users really want (I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want...)

This old poll had nearly 2000 requests - https://www.poll-maker.com/results1906611x31565b0C-51

In reality here on KVR we get the same 20-30 or so people posting!

I find it interesting to read a poll, because it is a short overview of what a subset of the community wants.
Reading 17 pages per KVR threads takes a lot of time, requires the capacity to digest a lot of negativity and some people are much more vocal than other, which implies an higher bias.