I apologize for my mistakes made in the past

[FarleyCZ]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers with inconvenience. Requiring HW dongles or really complicated licensing solutions is realy ungreatful to people who actually deciced to send you money. ...and because of that I LOVE to see this change. BiFilter is my secret weapon for years, I might be able to instal WarmVerb again and I will definitelly include Tone2 synths on my to-buy list in the future. (Though that Dj Bobo pic in the testimonials still puts me off a little bit. )

[chk071]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers.

What is "punishing" about Tone2's copy protection? Tell me. It's a simple key file, which has to be applied one time (IIRC... it's been a while since I owned Electra2). About as punishing as having to install the software.

You know, I'm not "pro" copy protection or something. I don't like to lock my front door either. But, I just can't see the "punishment" factor.

[robotmonkey]

Ok...

My findings are often also true.

For some things you do not have to be even particularly technologically savvy. With free tools from Sysinternals, for example, even you can easily verify that Tone2 software rummages through your system looking for stuff to delete. Not sure if this is true nowadays but it certainly was true last time I was interested in it which was years ago.

If Markus publicly says they are not doing it anymore, I guess I'm ok with that.

[FarleyCZ]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers.

What is "punishing" about Tone2's copy protection? Tell me. It's a simple key file, which has to be applied one time (IIRC... it's been a while since I owned Electra2). About as punishing as having to install the software.

You know, I'm not "pro" copy protection or something. I don't like to lock my front door either. But, I just can't see the "punishment" factor.

Right now nothing. Honestly I'm using my old installers too, so I have to had missed that whole PACE incompatibility and system scanning thing I keep reading about Tone2 products on the internet. But you still have so many companies pushing you to use iLoks and other kinds of external solutions. No. Just no. Simple keycode/file is fair enough. Anything over that is bullying customers for paranoic reasons.

[robotmonkey]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers.

What is "punishing" about Tone2's copy protection? Tell me. It's a simple key file, which has to be applied one time (IIRC... it's been a while since I owned Electra2). About as punishing as having to install the software.

You know, I'm not "pro" copy protection or something. I don't like to lock my front door either. But, I just can't see the "punishment" factor.

The Tone2+iLok computer shutdown problem from couple of year back was pretty bad, imho. Again, Tone2 is the only company known to cause such issues. That's why they have gotten well-deserved flack.

[chk071]

Ok...

My findings are often also true.

For some things you do not have to be even particularly technologically savvy. With free tools from Sysinternals, for example, even you can easily verify that Tone2 software rummages through your system looking for stuff to delete. Not sure if this is true nowadays but it certainly was true last time I was interested in it which was years ago.

If Markus publicly says they are not doing it anymore, I guess I'm ok with that.

Fair enough.

Poor guys though whose warez were removed from their computers. I certainly feel for them.

[chk071]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers.

What is "punishing" about Tone2's copy protection? Tell me. It's a simple key file, which has to be applied one time (IIRC... it's been a while since I owned Electra2). About as punishing as having to install the software.

You know, I'm not "pro" copy protection or something. I don't like to lock my front door either. But, I just can't see the "punishment" factor.

Right now nothing. Honestly I'm using my old installers too, so I have to had missed that whole PACE incompatibility and system scanning thing I keep reading about Tone2 products on the internet. But you still have so many companies pushing you to use iLoks and other kinds of external solutions. No. Just no. Simple keycode/file is fair enough. Anything over that is bullying customers for paranoic reasons.

Paranoia left aside (I really think companies in this business are seriously harmed by warez, coming from a background where I also used warez, about 15 - 20 years ago, the net was full of them), yes, I wished companies would do without stuff like iLok, especially when you have to use a dongle. But, I can see where they're coming from. It's not nice, and, I don't think anyone wants it, the developers surely not as well. It's just that, once again, some fuckheads spoil it for everyone. And, those are the ones which people should point to, not the devs.

I wouldn't need traffic signs telling me to reduce car speed either. But, they have to do it, because of some assholes who harm others with what they are doing, and have no responsibility for themselves, and, especially, for other humans. Sad but that's how it is. That's not the fault of the ones making the laws, or enforcing them. They're there for a reason. Not to hassle the ones who are responsible, but, the ones who aren't. So that everyone can live better.

[robotmonkey]

I repeat this in every discussion about copy protection and I can't help myself from repeating it here too. Unless you're god damn MIT, your products will get cracked sooner or later. All copy protection does, is making it a liiitle bit harder for the hacker while punishing all your paying customers with inconvenience. Requiring HW dongles or really complicated licensing solutions is realy ungreatful to people who actually deciced to send you money. ...and because of that I LOVE to see this change. BiFilter is my secret weapon for years, I might be able to instal WarmVerb again and I will definitelly include Tone2 synths on my to-buy list in the future. (Though that Dj Bobo pic in the testimonials still puts me off a little bit. )

There's been some pretty decent non-intrusive approaches that have been both customer friendly and held on quite well to cracking efforts. Camel Audio stuff remained uncracked well after they were already out of existence. Synthmaster has not been cracked to my knowledge. U-he has also held on quite well.

[FarleyCZ]

Poor guys though whose warez were removed from their computers. I certainly feel for them.

I actually do. I've been thinking about this just yesterday. In a day and age, when you can see Martin Garrix or Steve Aoki opening cracked Sylenth in a tutorial video, there's literally no benefit to buying software aside from a good feeling. When nobody bothered to ask them about legality of their software on the whole way from 0 to the very top? Why would you buy it? I mean, as adults, we understand programmers need to eat and pay their bills. But imagine you're a youngster. You have your pocket money each month, may be earn few bucks on a part time job. You don't have much. And somebody is asking you to pay hunderets of dollars to have a nice feeling? Naah. This is a concious descision you have to arrive to through time. And you will. As you start to regularly earn money and realize developers are people too. But arriving to that descision is way harder, when pirated software is simply easier to install and doesn't scan through your computer. And that's why I think that complex copy protection hurts sales of the whole industry in general.

[robotmonkey]

I wouldn't need traffic signs telling me to reduce car speed either. But, they have to do it, because of some assholes who harm others with what they are doing, and have no responsibility for themselves, and, especially, for other humans. Sad but that's how it is. That's not the fault of the ones making the laws, or enforcing them. They're there for a reason. Not to hassle the ones who are responsible, but, the ones who aren't. So that everyone can live better.

The issue with Tone2 is that they have been acting like they are the only company with piracy problem, and that this gives them the right to do whatever they want.

Plenty of companies have managed to solve this issue more or less in an efficient AND customer friendly way. From the lax attitude of Image-Line to effective protection of U-he to Waves microtransaction sale model there have been plenty of good approaches.

[chk071]

Poor guys though whose warez were removed from their computers. I certainly feel for them.

I actually do. I've been thinking about this just yesterday. In a day and age, when you can see Martin Garrix or Steve Aoki opening cracked Sylenth in a tutorial video, there's literally no benefit to buying software aside from a good feeling. When nobody bothered to ask them about legality of their software on the whole way from 0 to the very top? Why would you buy it? I mean, as adults, we understand programmers need to eat and pay their bills. But imagine you're a youngster. You have your pocket money each month, may be earn few bucks on a part time job. You don't have much. And somebody is asking you to pay hunderets of dollars to have a nice feeling? Naah. This is a concious descision you have to arrive to through time. And you will.

True. Although I believe that it is not only a matter of age, but surely also a question of character. Sort of like whether you like to help others, or just see yourself.

I don't see any excuse for using warez these days though. If most kids run around with a iPhone in their pocket, mom and daddy also can buy them Sylenth1. Especially as it's much harder to crack nowdays.

[thecontrolcentre]

"Did you also know that their installers come with hunter-killer side program that searches all through your Program Files, System32, WOW64 and so on, looking for ripped off copies of their products, and when it finds one it dials home and meanwhile kills the synth, etc., it deems unlicensed?"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=443447

Well, if you'd like to be ruthless then I've plenty of ruthlessness in reserve. Just give me a call if you do want some more

I notice you didn't post the direct response to that post

You're an idiot. This is factually wrong. Their installer does no such thing, there is no such "side program". The installer checks the install directory for pirated licenses, nothing fishy about that. Where you got your info I don't know, but it's retarded that you have such confidence. You need to take a step back and learn to think a bit.

There's nothing that makes sense about them all sounding the same too. It just doesn't make sense. What would make their software "shiny"? Whatever, all you said is nonsense. No need to go point by point, all of it, and I mean all of it, is wrong (and easily verifiable as such).

[Robmobius]

Fair play... I respect anyone who owns and apologizes for making a mistake. We all do.

That said, I've never had a problem with anything from Tone2. And when I did have to contact support everything was solved in a polite and timely manner.

Please keep up the fantastic work.

[FarleyCZ]

True. Although I believe that it is not only a matter of age, but surely also a question of character. Sort of like whether you like to help others, or just see yourself.

I don't see any excuse for using warez these days though. If most kids run around with a iPhone in their pocket, mom and daddy also can buy them Sylenth1. Especially as it's much harder to crack nowdays.

I don't see either. Especially now, when the stuff with the greatest fanbase - like Serum - is cheap and available through rent2own. But on the other hand, it strongly depends on what your options are. I know a whole lot of people who look like they are financially doing well, but the reality under the hood is not that bright. And some of them love to produce. I have all my software legally, but only because I have been lucky to have regular expendable amount of extra cash for a few years. I cannot go to people who didn't have this luck and belittle them for not having the same resources.

...and again. The theoretical unbreakable copy protection will stop them from getting used to your product. So, when eventually they get extra cash and decide to support devs, they won't invest in you, because they are already used to other plugins that were easier to obtain illegally. Just saying...

[chk071]

I have all my software legally, but only because I have been lucky to have regular expendable amount of extra cash for a few years. I cannot go to people who didn't have this luck and belittle them for not having the same resources.

See, I have a problem with that point. With the same argumentation, you could go around and steal a car from someone. Or worse.

If you can't afford something, you are not entitled to own it. As simple as that. It would be unfair if you get the same thing someone can afford because he works, or worked to get a better position than you. That is absolutely no justification for piracy. Or stealing.

I could also go around saying that it's unfair that someone here owns a studio full of hardware which I can't afford. But, what would that make me? A jealous person who thinks he doesn't have to do anything to get it all. Not how it works, and not fair in any way.