Ableton Live ($700) doomed? Now Logic ($200) got huge update.

[v1o]

Sorry teacher, I meant "overpriced"!

And I tested Ableton 7, 8 and 9 and compared to every other DAW, I tested and I'm using, Ableton is the worst, but it has the most fanboys!

If I was a DJ and my usage scenario was, I played strictly live shows and built tracks from scratch by triggering various loops and midi sequences from a pad controller, how could Ableton be the worst the bunch?

[v1o]

Ableton is not going anywhere anytime soon. It's always been pretty pricey to jump in and Logic has always been the best bang for buck DAW. That's nothing new.

It's the best bang for the buck right now, but it hasn't always. Logic used to cost over $700 and its instrument plugins were sold separate. EXS24 for example used to cost $249.00. At the time that was still great value compared to buying a HD recording system like Pro Tools and racks of synths & samplers.

[claudedefaren]

...

[v1o]

But Logic doesn't have Audio Effect Racks, Instrument Racks, Midi Effect Racks, and the macros. Those are a super important part of my workflow. Logic is super compelling, but without racks and macros, I'm not switching.

It have stacks and smart controls tho

Stacks are cool but it's for instrument grouping, there isn't an equivalent of audio effect racks or midi effect racks that can be used on an instrument channel. Smart controls I didn't know existed, can you map parameters from multiple plugins to the same control? Can you map multiple knobs from a plugin to the same control knob?

This is kiddie stuff that Reason has been doing since version 2.5(?)

Anyway what stops you from using an AU chainer plugin within Logic Pro? To achieve the same results.

Kiddie stuff? Please be respectful, I'm not here to have an ego contest with you.

I'm not familiar with what an AU chainer is. Can you explain how that would be a suitable replacement for audio/midi effect racks?

A chainer is a type of plugin that allows you to stack plugins together in a virtual rack, you can add macro controls whereby you control parameters from multiple plugins with the same control and you can also apply modulation to the automatible parameters.

[claudedefaren]

...

[dupont]

Ableton has the hottest cuties in their ads, therefore they will survive despite their shortcomings.

correct, live marketing is clever and makes you think famous (fake) edm producers and sexy girls use it.

[Smapti]

I don't see Logic being a replacement for Max for Live. Once it has something like Chaos Culture Modulat, which is easily the most powerful thing I've ever used in a DAW, then I could maybe see people jumping over (or at least those of us who use M4L -- Logic might be more appealing for people who don't use it).

[SLiC]

Maybe if Logic does 'doom' Live (and Cubase et al) other developers will simply stop supporting the Mac OS. Maybe Ableton will drop MAC!

Apple can throw development resources at their own software undercut process to the point of it not being worthwhile for other developers to compete (especially with all of the problems with frequent OS updates dropping support for various platforms.

[Passing Bye]

Maybe if Logic does 'doom' Live (and Cubase et al) other developers will simply stop supporting the Mac OS. Maybe Ableton will drop MAC!

That doesn't make any sense, if Logic "killed" competition, then pretty much most business would go in just developing AU's for macOS, that would make developers life so much easier, instead of supporting at that point dying platform.

[SLiC]

Maybe if Logic does 'doom' Live (and Cubase et al) other developers will simply stop supporting the Mac OS. Maybe Ableton will drop MAC!

That doesn't make any sense, if Logic "killed" competition, then pretty much most business would go in just developing AU's for macOS, that would make developers life so much easier, instead of supporting at that point dying platform.

I was referring to DAW developers, not plug ins. Is it worth other 'DAW developers' supporting/going after MAC OS against such a high quality DAW at such a low cost? There can't be much market left.

[antic604]

I don't see Logic being a replacement for Max for Live. Once it has something like Chaos Culture Modulat, which is easily the most powerful thing I've ever used in a DAW, then I could maybe see people jumping over (or at least those of us who use M4L -- Logic might be more appealing for people who don't use it).

For you, maybe. 99%+ of Live users don't use it and doesn't even have a need for it.

[SLiC]

Will Logic 10.5 take user from Cubase ($550) and Studio One ($400). I assume there was reason why people were using these DAWS over Logic before this update, has anything changed in that department, or is it just adding a 'clip launcher' now putting it against Live? I'm just curious as a non MAC users why anyone uses anything other than Logic?

[Kongru]

I don't see Logic being a replacement for Max for Live. Once it has something like Chaos Culture Modulat, which is easily the most powerful thing I've ever used in a DAW, then I could maybe see people jumping over (or at least those of us who use M4L -- Logic might be more appealing for people who don't use it).

99%+ of Live users don't use it and doesn't even have a need for it.

Where did you get that number from?

[MissOptimyst]

Not an Abelton user, but I started on FL Studio and moved to Logic about a decade ago when I switched from PC to Mac. I have recently been so annoyed with the tedious Ultrabeat drum workflow I was planning to get FL again. Really missed the step sequencer and being able to sample easily. Now with the latest update no reason to.

[Smapti]

I don't see Logic being a replacement for Max for Live. Once it has something like Chaos Culture Modulat, which is easily the most powerful thing I've ever used in a DAW, then I could maybe see people jumping over (or at least those of us who use M4L -- Logic might be more appealing for people who don't use it).

For you, maybe. 99%+ of Live users don't use it and doesn't even have a need for it.

That's not true at all. Ableton's own device packs, which lots of people use, are mostly programmed in M4L. Also, Isotonik, K-Devices, and many other M4L device creators do very well. You are probably right that 99% of Live users don't program in M4L, but the majority of Live users absolutely do use M4L. Until that changes, Live users won't be moving to Logic.