Choosing a keyboard controller for Waveform Pro

[UnionS8]

You also mentioned Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol earlier. Here is the parallel thread running here in the forum on this topic: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=547546

[dynamo]

The procedure for configuring things seems easy enough, but does this also mean that each knob/button/slider has a single function, or do they do different things depending on where in the DAW you are?

You are speaking (the second case) about ACT (Active Controller Technology). I wonder if Waveform is capable of using one. As far as I know, it requires some scripts to be written specially for each controller. Maybe someone could explain this topic and tell us if Waveform works with ACT controllers.

Is the first case a more common way for controllers to work while the second is more specialized?
I don't see any mention of ACT in their specs, but there is something about "Native Kontrol Standard" (NKS) which is apparently reliant on NKS compatible plugins. I have no idea what this means.

[dynamo]

You also mentioned Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol earlier. Here is the parallel thread running here in the forum on this topic: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=547546

Thanks. I hadn't seen that one.
Actually most of what they discuss there is over my head. I've used MIDI for years but have no experience with modern keyboard controllers.
I'll see what comes out of that discussion but have a feeling that all those streamlined knobs and displays are meant for and only work for their own soft-synth based system and might be a waste of money in my case. But I hope someone can prove me wrong

[Watchful]

Possibly, especially with the bigger names. We have a Behringer UMX floating around here that's performed well for years...all knobs, sliders, and buttons are fully remappable on the fly. While I don't know much about your specific product choices, I might suggest you not pay for any features you won't want to use.

[dynamo]

Yes, that's what I fear I might be doing with the Komplete Kontrol keyboards.
They're great to look at, have a great keyboard action (Fatar for the S-series), but if the display and the knobs do just about nothing as long as I'm not into the softsynth eco-system I might as well buy the Roland A-800 Pro which appears (at least from reading the specs and user manual which I downloaded) to be a more basic MIDI/USB master keyboard. It's cheaper too.
And I haven't yet looked deeply into the other keyboards mentioned here, so that might be something.

But if the Native Instruments keyboards will work with Waveform, taking advantage of its display and buttons/knobs it would be awesome.

[LJM61]

I'm seeking the same info!
I've looked high and low all over the web for information on this exact combo(Waveform 11Pro with NI Komplete Kontrol S-88 MK2 and included Software & Plugin Bundle. I would love to know for sure before I pull the $1300(pre-tax) trigger!

[astey]

I'm seeking the same info!
I've looked high and low all over the web for information on this exact combo(Waveform 11Pro with NI Komplete Kontrol S-88 MK2 and included Software & Plugin Bundle. I would love to know for sure before I pull the $1300(pre-tax) trigger!

NI Komplete Kontrol relies on automation/modulation of two vst parameters to know which instance / which track is active. This is done automatically by a script in Bitwig, Ableton, Cubase, S1 and so on.
So you need to look out for ways to set your Kontrol keyboard to the current/right Komplete Kontrol VST plugin manually.
You can look for information at forums of all unsupported DAWs, since all DAWs are the same in this regard.

Transport controls should work. I don't know if midi/Mackie feedback of the transport controls works with the NI controller editor. Navigation works with supported DAWs only.
Midi mode of the Kontrol series just includes the 8 encoders and 8 buttons. All other buttons stay part of native control protocol and therefore can't be used for alternative actions in all unsupported DAWs, hence the missing midi out messages.

NI Kontrol VST supports general midi messages for some actions, so you got limited functionality with generic midi controllers.

Personal opinion - to manage your expectations & benefits:
Komplete Kontrol is a pain to work with, if you use keyboard and mouse.
The browser is tiny and the factory browser tags are hit & miss. Can't combine multiple filters. preset list is alphabetical only. Your user presets are separated from NKS presets, so you always need to decide where to browse first.
Hardware is awesome... software isn't.
This is why I went with Akai vip, which needs a lot of work to import your presets - a hell of a lot. However after months of dedication I got an exciting preset managing tools with all the bells and whistles. Don*t know if Akai supports its software still, since last update was 2 years ago, but I'm happy. NI didn't improve their major pain points in the last two years either. Their forum is full of improvement requests for basic workflows.

[LJM61]

Thanks for taking the time! Much appreciated!
I am also looking at the Akai MPK Mini for quick midi input as a writing tool.
My son and I are both very much into NI plugin suites, and since the Komplete Kontrol S-88 Mk2 comes bundled with KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE(which is worth as much as the NI KK S-88 Mk2 keyboard price alone) which to me is like getting both for half price.
I like TWOFFERS! But I don't like headaches.

We are in the process of putting together a Digital home studio build around a Behringer X-32 Rack and Behringer S-32 Digital Stage Box as our Digital System Core and Signal Router. Anyone know if the combo of Tracktion Waveform 11 Pro and Native Instruments has any issues with running on a Behringer X32 system?

On paper it seems the ultimate cost effective way to go...
Especially when you need 48 or more tracks. I am also looking for a Behringer SD-8 mini stage box just for the keyboard section which will bring the system to a total of 52 inputs and Tracks.
If anyone has experience and can speak to this particular combo, I would greatly appreciate your input.
Thx!
Louie(Southern Ontario, Canada)

[astey]

Thanks for taking the time! Much appreciated!
I am also looking at the Akai MPK Mini for quick midi input as a writing tool.
My son and I are both very much into NI plugin suites, and since the Komplete Kontrol S-88 Mk2 comes bundled with KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE(which is worth as much as the NI KK S-88 Mk2 keyboard price alone) which to me is like getting both for half price.
I like TWOFFERS! But I don't like headaches.

We are in the process of putting together a Digital home studio build around a Behringer X-32 Rack and Behringer S-32 Digital Stage Box as our Digital System Core and Signal Router. Anyone know if the combo of Tracktion Waveform 11 Pro and Native Instruments has any issues with running on a Behringer X32 system?

On paper it seems the ultimate cost effective way to go...
Especially when you need 48 or more tracks. I am also looking for a Behringer SD-8 mini stage box just for the keyboard which will bring the system to a total of 52 inputs and Tracks.
If anyone has experience and can speak to this particular combo, I would greatly appreciate your input.
Thx!
Louie

All depends on your personal workflow. K88 uses hammer mechanics, so fast drumming and arpeggios can be challenging, especially for kids. Perfect for learning and playing Piano VST though.
My suggestion is to download Komplete Kontrol VST - which is free - and try your workflow on it. The keyboard is just an extension of Kontrol VST and won't alter its workflow much.

I prefer working in the box. No external hardware routing on purpose. So I can't comment on Behringer.

Komplete 12 is a bundle without competition when it comes to value/price. I use it heavily + I love it.
Be aware that Komplete 13 should be knocking at the doors. Every second fall / late summer comes an update. however summer sale is over by then.

[LJM61]

Thanks for the input.
I agree that NI Komplete 12 has great depth and functionality. But the quality of it's Sound is the reason I chose it. I will likely use less than half of the KK12 bundle, but it's good to know we will have that depth in options available to us as we both experiment and evolve our Sounds.

I will definitely take you up on downloading the Free KK VST to try it out as you suggest. But the reason I have been seeking info in the first place was with regards to pulling the trigger on an S88 MkII keyboard. The reason why I like the concept of having the capability to work at our Keyboard Station(or Drums Station, Guitar or Bass while in Writing Mode without having to return to the DAW.

We will also be using Behringer X-Air app that runs on any Android smartphone or tablet that allows remote control of the DAW via WiFi. This is important to us since my son and I both tend work Alone at times, at all hours, and this will allow us to focus on writing and capturing it instead of constant interruptions by returning to the DAW just to make a change in track or plugins selection ...

Thx again!

[dynamo]

Personal opinion - to manage your expectations & benefits:
Komplete Kontrol is a pain to work with, if you use keyboard and mouse.
The browser is tiny and the factory browser tags are hit & miss. Can't combine multiple filters. preset list is alphabetical only. Your user presets are separated from NKS presets, so you always need to decide where to browse first.
Hardware is awesome... software isn't.
This is why I went with Akai vip, which needs a lot of work to import your presets - a hell of a lot. However after months of dedication I got an exciting preset managing tools with all the bells and whistles. Don*t know if Akai supports its software still, since last update was 2 years ago, but I'm happy. NI didn't improve their major pain points in the last two years either. Their forum is full of improvement requests for basic workflows.

Yes, that's something to look into. If I understand correctly, that app (Akai VIP) is a plugin for assigning the different knobs (of a VIP-compatible keyboard controlelr/USB controller -I'm guessing that'll be just hardware from Akai) to control parameters in synth-plugins, effect-plugins and DAW controls? I gather this means more assignable control than with the average DAW controller setup software?

[astey]

Vip is more complex than Komplete.
Its a database which allows you to catalogue your synth presets by 4 tag categories. Preset pack/instrument, sound character, genre, play style. However you can setup your tags however you like.

Looking for sounds can be done on instrument basis or tag basis. You can even hide certain tags to narrow down your search. Presets can be displayed alphabetically, randomly, import date or rating. Search example: I want synthesizer sounds, with an analog feel, played like a stab, for house music, but not Sylenth1, sorted by personal rating.

Akai vip supports 3rd party keyboards as well for vst parameter control, and selecting the next preset.
So you can use it with non "Vip ready" keyboards as well. The benefit of the Akai Advance series, Alesis or M-audio keyboards is that you can browse your tags on the keyboard too.
You got 4 times 8 knobs to control your vst in general and 4 times 8 knobs to control your current patch. Which isn't unlimited but should be enough.
If you make use of the eight multi vst workflow -which i highly recommend - it becomes very useful to use a "vip ready"-keyboard for adjusting vst parameters, since there are so many parameters. it also supports vstfx plugins to append your vsti.

The whole concept of VIP is to provides you a platform to dig deep into your presets. But its not really install and play like Komplete, since the included patches where created 5 years ago. A lot of editing and adding is needed.

inMusic hardware quality is good but not on par with NI.

Summary:
If you want to have fun making music after work go with Komplete
If you want to dig into your sounds and spend hours of designing and listening to sounds go with Vip.

[dynamo]

I understand that this relates mostly to software instruments and selecting sounds from those, but what about configuring it for the DAW and effects plugins (for more "hands on" tactile feel and quicker access than with a mouse/keyboard) and maybe even controlling hardware MIDI synths?

[Peter Widdicombe]

I think you'll find that older synths will not have that kind of integration built in, in most cases. You will LIKELY be able to select another patch, and POSSIBLY be able to download a complete new patch over MIDI.

Even if you have it, this may not be in the hardware synth's typical user manual; so you'll be doing lots of digging to get that level of control on something like the DX7.

[astey]

I understand that this relates mostly to software instruments and selecting sounds from those, but what about configuring it for the DAW and effects plugins (for more "hands on" tactile feel and quicker access than with a mouse/keyboard) and maybe even controlling hardware MIDI synths?

other options for your hardware:
Omnisphere supports Synth control. so use your synth to control omnisphere Vst like its a hardware synth