Tape simulations for that mastering mojo.

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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plexuss
KVRAF
3822 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:07 am

Michey wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:12 am
plexuss wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:21 am
Michey wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:03 am
there are elements of analogue that are also desirable ITB. Hence all the hullabaloo...
Can you elaborate ?

Can one aurally detect these elements in a way that skews the listening experience ?
Noise and distortion - there are applications of noise and distortion that occur in the analogue domain that some people like when optimally used in music production. ITB opens up all kinds of issues and risks with noise and distortion that do not exist in analogue, for example clipping causing wide band intermodulation distortion which is generally not pleasing.
Isn't that why gain staging exists in the first place ? "stay safe" was a slogan used way before covid-19... :)
Thanks !
This opens the can-of-worms called "Inter-sample peaks"...

hotmitts
KVRist
433 posts since 27 Nov, 2003 from UK, Polegate

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 am

What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?

Ploki
KVRAF
2462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:32 am

hotmitts wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 am
What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?
Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.

User avatar
Calenberger
KVRAF
1695 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:41 am

Ploki wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:32 am
hotmitts wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 am
What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?
Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.
Does it alias?
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, kanntu meine musi hoeren da:
https://sonoryth.bandcamp.com/
Signature Sound

Ploki
KVRAF
2462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:43 am

Calenberger wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:41 am
Ploki wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:32 am
hotmitts wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 am
What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?
Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.
Does it alias?
Funny

No, bra are well done. I just don’t like magnetite

User avatar
Aloysius
KVRAF
29277 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:14 pm

Anyone tried Magnetite by Black Rooster? I got it free recently but haven't installed.
Hi-de-Hi!

Ploki
KVRAF
2462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:27 pm

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:14 pm
Anyone tried Magnetite by Black Rooster? I got it free recently but haven't installed.
Yes, see literally two posts up.

It’s a saturator but not nearly as authentic as Satin.
It’s not bad tho

eytanmich123
KVRist
169 posts since 21 Apr, 2010

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:08 pm

plexuss wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:07 am
Michey wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:12 am
Isn't that why gain staging exists in the first place ? "stay safe" was a slogan used way before covid-19... :)
Thanks !
This opens the can-of-worms called "Inter-sample peaks"...
...Only if one insists limiting to 0dBFS :clown:
SOS' Technical Editor Hugh Robjohns wrote:inter-sample peaks (ISPs) only occur during a conversion process when the audio waveform is being reconstructed — during D-A conversion, sample-rate conversion, lossy codec processing, and so forth. However, the digital data itself is not inherently corrupt, and reducing the level before conversion processing will avoid the problem.

User avatar
Calenberger
KVRAF
1695 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Post Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:15 pm

Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, kanntu meine musi hoeren da:
https://sonoryth.bandcamp.com/
Signature Sound

eytanmich123
KVRist
169 posts since 21 Apr, 2010

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:38 am

Calenberger wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:15 pm
Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.
Or ponder the notion of ISP (how much of a discernible difference is actually heard - given the conversion/limiting ISN'T slammed and hammered against illogical amount of over-the-head dB's)

sascha
KVRian
1098 posts since 2 Oct, 2001 from Berlin, Germany

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:00 am

The problem with non-ISP brickwall limiting is nobody can safely predict what will happen on the user's audio equipment side. Whether ISPs are actually perceivable depends on the actual reconstruction filter, the DAC involved, and the surrounding audio parts, along with the analogue headroom. Most ISP limiters as well as ISP-aware metering instruments use 4x oversampling, which is common sense of being reasonably enough for prediction, but there can be cases where even that fails and the reconstructed waveform still exceeds the maximum headroom. Limiters are delicate tools, and need to be used with caution, care and a clear mind.
But now we're talking the opposite of 'Mojo', so back on (tape) track, folks ;)
Sascha Eversmeier
work: u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
band: The Board

User avatar
Hermetech Mastering
KVRian
1290 posts since 30 May, 2003 from Milan, Italy

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:16 am

I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.

Ploki
KVRAF
2462 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:22 am

Hermetech Mastering wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:16 am
I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.
tbh that's also true for real tape in many cases. :lol:

User avatar
Hermetech Mastering
KVRian
1290 posts since 30 May, 2003 from Milan, Italy

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:27 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:22 am
Hermetech Mastering wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:16 am
I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.
tbh that's also true for real tape in many cases. :lol:
Exactly, haha.

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3822 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:06 am

eytanmich123 wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:38 am
Calenberger wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:15 pm
Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.
Or ponder the notion of ISP (how much of a discernible difference is actually heard - given the conversion/limiting ISN'T slammed and hammered against illogical amount of over-the-head dB's)
It's very audible. I came up with the idea of "ISP Density" which measures the number of ISP warnings in a set time period. The more density the more IMD and the more it will be audible. If there is just one true ISP you wont hear it likely. But if you get a high density of them, they will be audible. In my experiments with fairly dynamic electronic music and well defined transients, you can only get to maybe 18 LUFS before peaks start clipping. Pushing loudness higher will definitely throw overs.

You know those really loud EDM and Rock recordings that have this kind of sound of "haze" through them, that's IMD due to ISPs.

Once I figured all this out I was able to significantly increase the sound quality of my ITB work.

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