KVR Audio

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:07 pm

Michey wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 pm
plexuss wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:21 pm
Michey wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:03 am
there are elements of analogue that are also desirable ITB. Hence all the hullabaloo...
Can you elaborate ?

Can one aurally detect these elements in a way that skews the listening experience ?
Noise and distortion - there are applications of noise and distortion that occur in the analogue domain that some people like when optimally used in music production. ITB opens up all kinds of issues and risks with noise and distortion that do not exist in analogue, for example clipping causing wide band intermodulation distortion which is generally not pleasing.
Isn't that why gain staging exists in the first place ? "stay safe" was a slogan used way before covid-19...
Thanks !

This opens the can-of-worms called "Inter-sample peaks"...

hotmitts · Post by **hotmitts** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:10 pm

What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?

Ploki · Post by **Ploki** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:32 pm

hotmitts wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:10 pm What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?

Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 pm

Ploki wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:32 pm
hotmitts wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:10 pm What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?
Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.

Does it alias?

Ploki · Post by **Ploki** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:43 pm

Calenberger wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 pm
Ploki wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:32 pm
hotmitts wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:10 pm What do people think of Magnetite by Black Rooster ?
Meh.
Got it in a bundle, Tried it, never used it.
Its a saturator but its not really a tape.
Does it alias?

Funny

No, bra are well done. I just don’t like magnetite

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:14 pm

Anyone tried Magnetite by Black Rooster? I got it free recently but haven't installed.

Ploki · Post by **Ploki** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:27 pm

Aloysius wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:14 pm Anyone tried Magnetite by Black Rooster? I got it free recently but haven't installed.

Yes, see literally two posts up.

It’s a saturator but not nearly as authentic as Satin.
It’s not bad tho

eytanmich123 · Post by **eytanmich123** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:08 am

plexuss wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:07 pm
Michey wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:12 pm Isn't that why gain staging exists in the first place ? "stay safe" was a slogan used way before covid-19...
Thanks !
This opens the can-of-worms called "Inter-sample peaks"...

...Only if one insists limiting to 0dBFS

SOS' Technical Editor Hugh Robjohns wrote:inter-sample peaks (ISPs) only occur during a conversion process when the audio waveform is being reconstructed — during D-A conversion, sample-rate conversion, lossy codec processing, and so forth. However, the digital data itself is not inherently corrupt, and reducing the level before conversion processing will avoid the problem.

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:15 am

Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.

eytanmich123 · Post by **eytanmich123** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:38 am

Calenberger wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:15 am Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.

Or ponder the notion of ISP (how much of a discernible difference is actually heard - given the conversion/limiting ISN'T slammed and hammered against illogical amount of over-the-head dB's)

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:00 am

The problem with non-ISP brickwall limiting is nobody can safely predict what will happen on the user's audio equipment side. Whether ISPs are actually perceivable depends on the actual reconstruction filter, the DAC involved, and the surrounding audio parts, along with the analogue headroom. Most ISP limiters as well as ISP-aware metering instruments use 4x oversampling, which is common sense of being reasonably enough for prediction, but there can be cases where even that fails and the reconstructed waveform still exceeds the maximum headroom. Limiters are delicate tools, and need to be used with caution, care and a clear mind.
But now we're talking the opposite of 'Mojo', so back on (tape) track, folks

Hermetech Mastering · Post by **Hermetech Mastering** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:16 am

I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.

Ploki · Post by **Ploki** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:22 am

Hermetech Mastering wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:16 am I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.

tbh that's also true for real tape in many cases.

Hermetech Mastering · Post by **Hermetech Mastering** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:27 am

Ploki wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:22 am
Hermetech Mastering wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:16 am I've tried many, all the usual suspects, but have not yet found one that made the master sound better, however I tried to set it up.
tbh that's also true for real tape in many cases.

Exactly, haha.

plexuss · Post by **plexuss** » Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:06 pm

eytanmich123 wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:38 am
Calenberger wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:15 am Or use an ISP sensitive limiter.
Or ponder the notion of ISP (how much of a discernible difference is actually heard - given the conversion/limiting ISN'T slammed and hammered against illogical amount of over-the-head dB's)

It's very audible. I came up with the idea of "ISP Density" which measures the number of ISP warnings in a set time period. The more density the more IMD and the more it will be audible. If there is just one true ISP you wont hear it likely. But if you get a high density of them, they will be audible. In my experiments with fairly dynamic electronic music and well defined transients, you can only get to maybe 18 LUFS before peaks start clipping. Pushing loudness higher will definitely throw overs.

You know those really loud EDM and Rock recordings that have this kind of sound of "haze" through them, that's IMD due to ISPs.

Once I figured all this out I was able to significantly increase the sound quality of my ITB work.

Tape simulations for that mastering mojo.