One Synth Challenge #138: Surge (New: $100 usd cash prize!)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
schpaeckulum
KVRist
43 posts since 26 May, 2020

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:15 am
I suppose I can provide Windows VST2 DLL on my GDrive.

Here we go - 64-bit VST2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SpuotH ... sp=sharing
The developers should provide a vst2 option, I think that's obvious. Now I have a dll file, do I need anything else? Go and check someplace else right?

ilmai
KVRist
462 posts since 25 Aug, 2016 from Helsinki, Finland

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:13 am

schpaeckulum wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 am
The developers should provide a vst2 option, I think that's obvious. Now I have a dll file, do I need anything else? Go and check someplace else right?
Unfortunately that’s impossible to do legally, as Steinberg doesn’t provide VST2 licenses to new developers anymore.

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FrogsInPants
KVRist
41 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:19 am

ilmai wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:02 am
I'm assuming the usual effects limitations apply to Surge Effects Bank?
I would interpret the rules to allow using Surge itself as an effect to process audio from another Surge instance without restrictions. Surge Effects Bank looks like it's a stripped down version with just the effects one can use as a workaround for DAWS that don't support that. If the same results could be achieved by routing one Surge instance to another, I for one wouldn't have a problem with that. Actually, I see it's distributed with Surge. It could easily be considered part of the synth, despite being in a separate plugin. So I wouldn't have a problem with it even if the results couldn't be achieved by routing the audio through the main Surge plugin. (Not that my opinion is in any way authoritative.)

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zerofox97
KVRist
104 posts since 17 Sep, 2013 from UK

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:21 am

I'm going to attempt to make an entry this month, but don't get your hopes up.
It's very tasty, I swear!

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Taron
KVRAF
2663 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:32 am

@EvilDragon: Ah, you're awesome, THANK YOU! I only looked through the folders and tried to find the sln file, you know. Pressed on time I'm a bit hesitant to really investigate.
When I look at your avatar now, I see a true rebel! :hihi: :tu: :tu: :tu:
Again, thanks a whole lot, it's running perfectly! :hug:

@zerofox: Yay! :hyper: ...been a while, too, hm?! I'll see what I can do, too. :pray:

baconpaul
KVRist
300 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:03 am

Morning! We just released Surge 1.7.1 - it fixes a couple of infrastructural problems, most relevantly making the VST3 work in live for mac and shipping the 64 bit effects bank with the 64 bit synth (vs the 32 bit).

As to the effects bank - yes it contains no DSP you can't get by routing into the synth in latch mode. It is just a way more convenient wrapper for the FX. I don't make the rules, but if the rules are 'use one DSP engine' then the FXB is the same as surge, just different wrapper.

Finally have fun! The last OSC with surge started when we still had a massive uninitialized memory bug which I fixed 4 days into the month. The team has come a long way since then and we hope you enjoy the new features!

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
20012 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:20 am

schpaeckulum wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 am
EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:15 am
I suppose I can provide Windows VST2 DLL on my GDrive.

Here we go - 64-bit VST2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SpuotH ... sp=sharing
The developers should provide a vst2 option, I think that's obvious. Now I have a dll file, do I need anything else? Go and check someplace else right?
SST legally cannot provide VST2 any longer since SST as a developer does not own a license for VST2 SDK.

You just install Surge 1.7 normally then put VST2 DLL I shared in your VST2 folder.

(I have legal access to VST2 SDK thrtough NI.)

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
20012 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:22 am

Taron wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:32 am
@EvilDragon: Ah, you're awesome, THANK YOU! I only looked through the folders and tried to find the sln file, you know. Pressed on time I'm a bit hesitant to really investigate.
If you read the readme on Github there are clear instructions on how to build using VS on Windows. ;)

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Taron
KVRAF
2663 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Croatia

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:30 am

read = investigate! :bang: :oops:
You're a treasure, mate! :hug:

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Guenon
KVRAF
1634 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:45 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:20 am
Here we go - 64-bit VST2
:shock:

Thank you so much, this means I can experiment with it in Renoise, too! I... might do something for the month, but I can't say for sure yet. The fresh 1.7.x is a beaut, it would be a shame not to. Waaah.

I know it's a lot to ask, on top of all the generous contributions from the Surge project already... but are you or someone else eligible and willing to do a VST2 build for Linux as well? I successfully built the VST3 version over here, as I posted back there in the main thread, but I don't have access to the VST2 SDK / license. Having a VST2 available would mean great Surge times in native Renoise on those lovely penguin boxes, too...

:borg: p...ppppenguinnnnn..

Aro
KVRist
71 posts since 16 Mar, 2018 from Canada

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:35 am

I had a quick look at Surge. I'm really excited. Lots of presets to play with. Lots of things to tweak. It looks a bit complex. But it comes with a manual! Which is really exciting for me, because I'm still relatively new to tweaking and coming up with my own sounds. Very excited!

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Guenon
KVRAF
1634 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:00 am

Haha, in case I manage to do something OSC-relevant, maybe it's in order to ask, just to be sure (and I have a feeling it's been me who has asked this on multiple occasions over the years, sorry :lol: ) .... ah, what's the current consensus on factory wavetable content like the stuff included with Surge? Okay to use in an OSC track / not okay? Hnnnnng?

Edit: sure enough, I asked the same thing during the previous Surge round :oops: ... Included wavetables were okay back then, with baconpaul chiming in that they "are absolutely critical to the working model. So I'd encourage the best results would allow you to use them if there's a question. WIth just the 7 generator oscillators you are missing 99% of the action." So... Factory content, green light?
Last edited by Guenon on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

RichardSemper
KVRian
607 posts since 30 Oct, 2013 from Stoke On Trent

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:05 am

@baconpaul Welcome on board! Its great to be playing Surge again. And so many improvements made since last time!
baconpaul wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:03 am
As to the effects bank - yes it contains no DSP you can't get by routing into the synth in latch mode. It is just a way more convenient wrapper for the FX. I don't make the rules, but if the rules are 'use one DSP engine' then the FXB is the same as surge, just different wrapper.
As far as I am concerned the fx bank can easily be considered "part of the synth" for the rules, Use of them in any way is fair game :tu:

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Guenon
KVRAF
1634 posts since 17 Jun, 2005

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:10 am

RichardSemper wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:05 am
As far as I am concerned the fx bank can easily be considered "part of the synth" for the rules, Use of them in any way is fair game :tu:
Agreed. It's 1:1 identical (in sound) with using the synth itself, and its built-in audio input, only more convenient and less heavy to manage. As in, if someone really really wants to go to town with the fx bank plugin, and it's not permitted, they can get the same result anyway, using the VSTi itself :P ... So it makes sense to use these freely, imo.

baconpaul
KVRist
300 posts since 25 Dec, 2018

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:12 am

Guenon wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:45 am
I know it's a lot to ask, on top of all the generous contributions from the Surge project already... but are you or someone else eligible and willing to do a VST2 build for Linux as well?
So we are working super hard with our binary distro to be totally license compliant hence no VST2. There are VST2 substitution libraries on Linux where there’s a debate as to whether they fall afoul of the reverse engineering clause in the Steinberg VST2 SDK. For a variety of reasons in Surge, we are taking the conservative view (if they might fall afoul of licensing issues with steinberg, they do) so haven’t done a binary build with them. But I think falk and KX have used them to build VST2s of surge. If you can build the VST3, building a VST2 is easy (just set one env var pointing at the code).

If you are a developer and need to make changes to the code to build with a substation library, we would merge those changes in a #ifdef and cmake flag and so on, even though we would still be reluctant to distribute the binary.

Hope that helps!
Last edited by baconpaul on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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