One Synth Challenge #138: Surge (MrKarolus Wins!)

[Guenon]

Just a heads-up for Linux users/experimenters: the KXStudio project now hosts the new 1.7.1 version of Surge. You can find it in their repos and as direct .deb download links over here: https://kx.studio/Repositories:Plugins - separate downloads for the program and content. And they have built it themselves (yesterday, apparently ), including their own VST2 build in the package, like baconpaul commented previously. Soooo in case you need the VST2 version for Linux experimentation, running Renoise or somesuch, it's available over there!

Annnd I still haven't gotten around to stringing anything together for this OSC myself, blaah!

[wireframewolves]

Hey all, here's my submission

https://soundcloud.com/wireframewolves/resurge

For this one I used a single instance of surge, and the effects on it are EQ8, drum buss, multiband dynamics, auto filter, reverb, and saturator. This was pretty challenging, and I'll probably continue to tweak it. Attached is a picture of the ridiculous automation.

[EvilDragon]

Public Service Announcement:

Apart from Taron's awesome snare patch, which we love and will include it for sure in the next Surge update, we are also happy to add a new folder in the third party presets library, containing patches from OSC 138. Send us patches you think are your best! Feel free to do this either by attaching them here in the thread, or by joining our Discord server, saying hi and dropping it in #patch-sharing channel!


Thank you

[L-EctroBit]

Just a heads-up for Linux users/experimenters: the KXStudio project now hosts the new 1.7.1 version of Surge. You can find it in their repos...
...they have built it themselves (yesterday, apparently ), including their own VST2 build in the package...

That's cool. Thanks for share the info.

Annnd I still haven't gotten around to stringing anything together for this OSC myself, blaah!

I'm afraid I don't have anything interesting to date either.

[L-EctroBit]

Public Service Announcement:

Apart from Taron's awesome snare patch, which we love and will include it for sure in the next Surge update, we are also happy to add a new folder in the third party presets library, containing patches from OSC 168....

Thank you

There is still a long way to go to 168 EvilDragon! We are just at OSC138.

Edit: just kidding man!

[EvilDragon]

Oops, typo

[Eauson]

Hey all, here's my submission

https://soundcloud.com/wireframewolves/resurge

For this one I used a single instance of surge, and the effects on it are EQ8, drum buss, multiband dynamics, auto filter, reverb, and saturator. This was pretty challenging, and I'll probably continue to tweak it. Attached is a picture of the ridiculous automation.

Hey, this is well cool
I’m now a bit tempted to have another go at my effort
Shame I forgot to do multiout and it’s just a stereo version
I will see if I can transfer all the automated stuff over to another instance and add some additional FX
See if I can Put lipstick on a

[Aro]

Okay I've got a question. What's the difference between dark and muddy? I'm working on my entry, and I intend it to be dark, but I'm worried that it'll sound muddy. And I also don't want it to sound too thin either. Any suggestions?

[MalToné]

Okay I've got a question. What's the difference between dark and muddy? I'm working on my entry, and I intend it to be dark, but I'm worried that it'll sound muddy. And I also don't want it to sound too thin either. Any suggestions?

A good and simple question, and one that could have volumes written about it!

I'll answer as the non-engineer that I am, and I'm hopeful others can give more detailed info like specific frequency ranges and such, instructional resources, plug-ins and meters to use.

Dark and Bright I think are referring to the balance of the higher frequencies in the mix, darker meaning less high end.

Muddy is when there is too much energy and/or conflicting frequencies in the lows and mids.

A clear non-muddy mid range and bass does not have to mean a thin mix.

You will find discussions and answers on the forums here and...

If you have not seen Warren Huart: Produce Like A Pro, here's a link to some videos on getting a good bottom end (Heh heh): . He's got tons of videos on mixing in general, and he addresses mixing virtual instruments, synths and more.

[schiing]

Okay I've got a question. What's the difference between dark and muddy? I'm working on my entry, and I intend it to be dark, but I'm worried that it'll sound muddy. And I also don't want it to sound too thin either. Any suggestions?

Just a few pointers from my own experience - I'm no pro, but there's really nothing controversial about these tips, so I think they're good.

Use a frequency analyzer to keep track - SPAN is brilliant.

If you fill the space with many sounds in the same frequency area, make sure to separate them enough, so you don't build massive peaks in concentrated areas. Try to get the best balance you can with arrangement and volume control before you start messing too much with eq.

But it can be good to think of where each sound belongs along the way - if your kick peaks at 60Hz you probably want to put a high pass filter with a gentle curve on the bass track to get the bass out of the way in that area. Do the same for low pads and keys if they interfere with the bass, etc. Don't let stuff get in the way of each other. Just don't overdo anything - try subtle adjustments, 3-6dB slopes, max 12dB - unless it's stuff like hi-hats, where you more or less want to block everything below a certain threshold.

(edit: And remember, you can use the stereo field to separate sounds as well, to reduce muddiness and avoid the sounds stepping on each other's toes. But it's still definitely worthwhile to get a mix that sounds okay in mono. It's such a complicated art!)

Generally speaking, with eq and muddiness I'd say it's good to be aware of the 150-500Hz area - typically a "de-mud" preset will have a dip around 350Hz, and maybe a little lift at 4000-4500. You could consider to boost the sub-200Hz as well, if it's too wimpy in the low end - but be careful: Often the opposite is the problem; way too much stuff building in the low end.

If you look at this snapshot from a track from Martin Nonstatic's latest EP, which I'd define as "dark, but with plenty of air" - it's incredibly dense below 1K. But I have no idea how he does it - if my curves looked anything like that, it would sound muddy as hell - so again: Careful!

nonstatic.jpg

[Aro]

Muddy is when there is too much energy and/or conflicting frequencies in the lows and mids.

Okay, that makes sense. So with my entry for the previous OSC, I probably had conflicting frequencies with the different oscillators I was using. (It was a one instance)


@ Maltone Thanks for the link!
@ schiing Thanks for the tips, frequencies and the music to listen to!

[MalToné]

@Aro, I'm glad I can help. I'm still getting a handle on this stuff my self, so it's University of YouTube for me...

So here is another link to one of Warren Huart's videos where he specifically addresses muddy mixes:

[Aro]

Thanks Maltone. And the university of YouTube

[z.prime]

... muddy ...

Yes, this is in the < 200Hz range, too many frequencies overlapping across instruments! the 'mud' is really that low-mid area. you want that to stay pretty clean with just bass/sub/kick mostly, and one at a time - e.g. sidechain bass/sub from the kick so you just have one low frequency sounding out at once. and your kick sounds bigger!

Hi!

Also hi! You will find the OSC one of the most helpful and encouraging communities around! Keep at it and ask questions!

... plugin ... free ... time ...

Yeah, as I understand it one of the reasons to disallow commercial FX is that it becomes harder to validate entries without spending money. If a plugin is free, including during voting, it doesn't have this problem and I think is perfectly fine! Also I would say using commercial plugins all the time should be allowed

Dang, I missed all these notifications and thought there was no discussion going on about the mighty awesome surge! But no, great stuff... like ww's single instance track!

[ahanysz]

Okay I've got a question. What's the difference between dark and muddy?

It's interesting to see all the answers based on spectrum analysis. I'm not used to measuring things this way, so much to learn!

For live performances on acoustic instruments, muddy = dark + featureless. The more you can make out details -- clear melody, articulation, rhythm, whatever -- the less muddy it will sound.

For a masterclass in "dark but not muddy":