I overpaid for my u-he plugins...

[experimental.crow]

US retailers also typically show prices excluding VAT/GST/whatever. They then add it later during the checkout process, often 7-10% depending on state you purchase from. We show prices including VAT/GST/whatever (we have to include the VAT on our website, EU laws...), which we magically level out at around 10% for our calculations of the price we give our resellers. Hence, more or less, suggested retail prices are pretty equal. But again, dollar is currently down vs. euro, therefore American resellers buy cheap currently, due to our fixed dollar price.

We simply can't go into daily market prices like on a fish market. I'd love some grilled cheese sandwich, bit it would be for late dinner, thank you.

I don't pay sales tax. Maybe buying from US retailers isn't quite as much of a discount (compared to the official website) for people that have to pay taxes at point of sale. If you are including taxes in the price on your website then people like me are essentially getting double taxed (because "sales" taxes are withheld from my paycheck, and then you're including an extra tax charge in the listed price), so in the grand scheme of things I actually lost more than $80 compared to someone buying from a US retailer in a state with sales tax.

oh , do explain this ...
please ...

This is maybe some sort of weird U.S.A. thing, but the US state that I live in doesn't charge any tax for purchases at point of sale. Instead of sales tax an estimated amount of tax is taken out of my paycheck by the state. Once per year I file both federal (national) and state (local) taxes. States that charge taxes at point of sale typically only have to file federal taxes, as the state gets the taxes it needs every time you buy something rather than from your paycheck.

I put it in quotation marks because it's not technically a sales tax, as I'm not taxed at point of sale, but it functionally serves the same purpose. It's just semantics about when the money is taken.

as previously noted by mgw38 , this is completely erroneous ...
the withholding the state takes from your paycheck is based upon income , just like
the federal withholding tax ...

sales taxes are calculated and collected at point of sale , and can vary by state , county
and even city ...

Hence the quotation marks...

I've already specifically explained that it is not a sales tax but it serves the same purpose, to fund the state. I already specifically explained that it's not taken at point of sale.

so , you choose to ignore the bit on your state income tax forms where it says
" income " , and prefer to call it a " sales " tax ...

what state do you live in ?..

[briefcasemanx]

I don't pay sales tax. Maybe buying from US retailers isn't quite as much of a discount (compared to the official website) for people that have to pay taxes at point of sale. If you are including taxes in the price on your website then people like me are essentially getting double taxed (because "sales" taxes are withheld from my paycheck, and then you're including an extra tax charge in the listed price), so in the grand scheme of things I actually lost more than $80 compared to someone buying from a US retailer in a state with sales tax.

oh , do explain this ...
please ...

This is maybe some sort of weird U.S.A. thing, but the US state that I live in doesn't charge any tax for purchases at point of sale. Instead of sales tax an estimated amount of tax is taken out of my paycheck by the state. Once per year I file both federal (national) and state (local) taxes. States that charge taxes at point of sale typically only have to file federal taxes, as the state gets the taxes it needs every time you buy something rather than from your paycheck.

I put it in quotation marks because it's not technically a sales tax, as I'm not taxed at point of sale, but it functionally serves the same purpose. It's just semantics about when the money is taken.

as previously noted by mgw38 , this is completely erroneous ...
the withholding the state takes from your paycheck is based upon income , just like
the federal withholding tax ...

sales taxes are calculated and collected at point of sale , and can vary by state , county
and even city ...

Hence the quotation marks...

I've already specifically explained that it is not a sales tax but it serves the same purpose, to fund the state. I already specifically explained that it's not taken at point of sale.

so , you choose to ignore the bit on your state income tax forms where it says
" income " , and prefer to call it a " sales " tax ...

what state do you live in ?..

No, I choose to, in the very specific context of the very specific situation I was discussing, analogize the two methods of taxation for illustrative purposes, while conceding that they are not the same thing.

The state is irrelevant, there are last I checked, several states that do not collect sales tax. I spend the majority of my time in one of them. I have also in the past had my main residence in states that do collect sales tax.

[experimental.crow]

oh , do explain this ...
please ...

This is maybe some sort of weird U.S.A. thing, but the US state that I live in doesn't charge any tax for purchases at point of sale. Instead of sales tax an estimated amount of tax is taken out of my paycheck by the state. Once per year I file both federal (national) and state (local) taxes. States that charge taxes at point of sale typically only have to file federal taxes, as the state gets the taxes it needs every time you buy something rather than from your paycheck.

I put it in quotation marks because it's not technically a sales tax, as I'm not taxed at point of sale, but it functionally serves the same purpose. It's just semantics about when the money is taken.

as previously noted by mgw38 , this is completely erroneous ...
the withholding the state takes from your paycheck is based upon income , just like
the federal withholding tax ...

sales taxes are calculated and collected at point of sale , and can vary by state , county
and even city ...

Hence the quotation marks...

I've already specifically explained that it is not a sales tax but it serves the same purpose, to fund the state. I already specifically explained that it's not taken at point of sale.

so , you choose to ignore the bit on your state income tax forms where it says
" income " , and prefer to call it a " sales " tax ...

what state do you live in ?..

No, I choose to, in the very specific context of the very specific situation I was discussing, analogize the two methods of taxation for illustrative purposes, while conceding that they are not the same thing.

The state is irrelevant, there are last I checked, several states that do not collect sales tax. I spend the majority of my time in one of them. I have also in the past had my main residence in states that do collect sales tax.

okay ...
got it ...
you are being superior and smug on the internet ...
you are placating your own ego ...

[mgw38]

This is maybe some sort of weird U.S.A. thing, but the US state that I live in doesn't charge any tax for purchases at point of sale. Instead of sales tax an estimated amount of tax is taken out of my paycheck by the state. Once per year I file both federal (national) and state (local) taxes. States that charge taxes at point of sale typically only have to file federal taxes, as the state gets the taxes it needs every time you buy something rather than from your paycheck.

I put it in quotation marks because it's not technically a sales tax, as I'm not taxed at point of sale, but it functionally serves the same purpose. It's just semantics about when the money is taken.

There is so much factually wrong in that statement, I wouldn’t even know where to start correcting you.

You can try to correct the parts you think are incorrect, or you can pretend to be superior and smug on the internet as if you'll earn some sort of credit. The only purpose for your reply was to placate your own ego.

Lol. Ok, I have to admit that was a good comeback. Touche!

Nevertheless, your comment is factually incorrect. In the vast majority of states you have to file state as well as federal taxes. It isn’t even remotely typical that states with sales tax don’t have income tax.

[Urs]

Goodness.

Firstly: We have evaluated that resellers largely *add* to our revenue - they do not cannibalise (@pough: Spot on!). That information is already more than I should elaborate about our internal business considerations and strategies.

Secondly: Much of what is said here sounds like we do something out of the ordinary. We don't. Anyone who says we need to declare the "street price" of our products on our website or in our store front please show me that doing so is a common thing within the audio plug-in community. I don't recall a single instance.

(Sure, some companies probably have a list of retailers on their website. That's common for physical products, but not so common for immaterial goods. What sense does this make when virtually any online audio software retailer lists our products?)

Lastly, the whole thing with VAT/GST. Many US states add VAT, most countries in the world outside the EU do. The average amount is somewhat around 10%. The time when international online sales were commonly "VAT free" are over (don't blame the messenger). That taxation loophole is largely gone. When you buy through our store, the appropriate amount of VAT is collected and sent to *your* tax authority. The gross price however stays the same for everyone.

Now, the tricky part is making up for stores which do not automatically include VAT in their price, e.g. US retailers. By choosing a dealer selling price that suggests "USD net in US stores equals EUR gross in EU stores" and an estimated 10% stronger Euro we factor those average 10% VAT worldwide into the pricing of stores that add VAT on checkout. Example: $129 plus 10% is pretty much €129 including 10%.

This keeps prices transparent and simple. It's why you hardly see threads like this in our forum. Because for most parts, people seem to be quite happy. We think it's the overall most consumer friendly scheme we could think of.

(Because the alternative is what you can see on many websites as well: Show no price at all until halfway through checkout, when final gross price is calculated. Because that really sucks.)

Sure, some are lucky because they live in a low tax area and can probably choose from a cheaper source than our website. It ain't 80 bucks, but it can add up when you buy a lot. But if you live in a higher taxed region or if USD gets really strong, suddenly our web shop becomes cheaper than your local dealer. Such is life. A bit of research is always advisable. We're grateful for the people who support us by choosing to buy through our web store anyway.

- U

[Frantz]

Here is one data point. I am in New York. I recently bought Hive2 from Sweetwater. This is what I paid according to the invoice:

u-he Hive 2 Synthesizer Plug-in
Total Before Tax: $149.00
Estimated Tax: $12.85
Order Total: $161.85

If I buy from the u-he website, it says the price is 173.67 USD without tax. When I go to Paypal, it shows the price as $180.62 USD (which seems to be less tax than Sweetwater charged).

So it looks like I saved $18.77 by going through a reseller.

[mgw38]

It seems that the difference between the U-he price and what shows up at Paypal is not the sales tax but the Paypal transaction/currency conversion fees. Never pay foreign currency through Paypal.

[THE INTRANCER]

Here is one data point. I am in New York. I recently bought Hive2 from Sweetwater. This is what I paid according to the invoice:

u-he Hive 2 Synthesizer Plug-in
Total Before Tax: $149.00
Estimated Tax: $12.85
Order Total: $161.85

If I buy from the u-he website, it says the price is 173.67 USD without tax. When I go to Paypal, it shows the price as $180.62 USD (which seems to be less tax than Sweetwater charged).

So it looks like I saved $18.77 by going through a reseller.

Strangely, I bought Hive for around £60 direct from U-HE, but this was in December of 2014 and version 1.0 of the product.

[briefcasemanx]

okay ...
got it ...
you are being superior and smug on the internet ...
you are placating your own ego ...

I'm simply explaining after getting attacked. If you say that is placating my own ego I won't argue, but I will say that explaining things during an argument isn't unreasonable.

Lol. Ok, I have to admit that was a good comeback. Touche!

Nevertheless, your comment is factually incorrect. In the vast majority of states you have to file state as well as federal taxes. It isn’t even remotely typical that states with sales tax don’t have income tax.

This may actually be true. I can really only speak for states I've lived in.

[excuse me please]

The comparison with second hand licenses is a fallacy; people don't expect to get their second hand stuff from vendors, but individuals. Then again: second hand products are not supposed to be updated, they could, but it's not a common request. So the comparison between a new license and an older one is nonsense in this case.

Btw we are not really talking about a real product, but a license. It's about pushing a copy button. Go figure. The excuses are understandable, but still weak and lame in comparison to hardware products; it's just that many go for it and don't care until they got ripped off. The usual MO IMO.

[SneakyBeats]

I overpaid for my u-he plugins...

At least you paid for your plugins

[excuse me please]

I overpaid for my u-he plugins...

At least you paid for your plugins

You mean... it's technically not stealing?

[QLNE]

I guess I’m old: I have no issues paying full price to support developers.

Third party pricing disputes. I guess you have finally arrived, Urs! Where? I’m not sure.

AF

[pekbro]

I'm into eurorack, I don't have any money... I did buy all my uhe stuff direct, but I wait for the sales
opportunities. Of course, I am ready for my uhe modules at full price
*Of course you can't buy those direct I guess, which is a little disappointing for some reason,
but understandable.

[blakflag]

Gosh, I hate fueling the fire... but first of all, how is this different than ANY other premium brand-name product that hosts its own store? I often find resellers who trade margin for sales for any number of items. Google search is mandatory if you care foremost about price (I'm a cheap bastard so usually this is me!)

Second, supporting a small company where the CEO regularly talks plainly with his customers about tech and strategy, is priceless.

How someone can blame U-He for their own lack of research is mind blowing. Well nothing blows my mind after this year.