Should Bitwig take Ableton 11 as an example?

[kdogg]

I think Bitwig is so far ahead in what it does well its not even comparable, I've used Ableton since 2004 and am amazed that they update as slowly as they do given how popular it is. After having used Bitwig for about 1 year and a half it's my favorite DAW by a mile. I work on game scores all day and almost always just use Bitwig in arrange view, barely ever clip launch. If Bitwig would add Video playback / export to picture and some more shortcuts to edit in the arrange view it be the ultimate DAW for my use.

Ableton still can't implement bounce in place in version 11, freeze isn't nearly the same thing. I like the minimal GUI but after using Bitwig it feels like cardboard - Bitwig has sexy GUI. Also the new macro knob state thing in Ableton is so easily achieved with the Bitwig modulator "Buttons".

BITWIG:

Bounce in place Clips or Groups
Disable Tracks / offload CPU
Best browser I've ever seen (U-he presets, Serum .fxb, Smart Folders, Custom Folders, Clips, Groups preview etc...)
VSTs get new life with all the modulators ready to get and streamlined
Grid = dope, nuff said. Roll your in Synth/FX in 5 minutes
Plugin Sandboxing / Suspend CPU when silent - how many other DAWS can hold 150 instances of Diva or Repro 1 sitting quietly waiting while CPU sits at like 3%
Hybrid Tracks - can't go back from this. Bounce midi in place to audio on same track and save the clip, preview it in the browser later without loading the vst to audition the vibe - so many uses. Bounce some long drone thing on the track without having to trigger midi everytime but keep VST ready if needed
Bitwig Instruments sound meaty and phat - I like that. Can't say the same for Ableton or most other Daws really
Ableton Push 2 doesn't slow down the program like it does with Ableton when using the Mossgrabers scripts - I always turn it off when using Ableton because it starts make the interface lag
more more more more


I just hope, like everyone else, that Bitwig start to show some love on the editing side of things - like even a movable playhead that I can paste to or a cursor that floats around to chop things up ala Cubase or Ableton. That and video and I'm good.

[ReleaseCandidate]

What's missing: usable size of the faders (I don't need huuuuge meters but big faders), better routing of audio (why do I need to use audio receivers to see the levels), saveable ranges (to loop), busses (no, groups don't cut it) and VCAs (or at least saveable groups of faders/knobs, but saving automation is a PITA using them), saveable channel views in the mixer, saveable mixer states (including automation), a monitor bus, options like 'Solo Safe' for channels, the ability to add aux channels at the sending channel, so you don't need the extra clicks, and other stuff I forgot, because I never use Bitwig (or Live) to mix. I don't really enjoy mixing that much, so at least I try to keep the process as smooth as possible.

All that this laundry list makes clear is that you're simply using the wrong daw. Everything you list above is old-school, 'classic studio in a box' stuff, totally covered, right now, by Cubase and Studio One.

No, I'm using the right DAWs. That is Bitwig (and Live) for composing and some other for mixing. I really don't like to use the 'classic' all-in-one DAWs for composing.

Bitwig was not made for people who say they 'need' these things.

My list is the answer to the question what is missing for mixing in Bitwig. I know why I use Bitwig and when to use another program. Sometimes I also use no DAW at all, but paper and a notation program. Or a sound editor.

You'd be much better served by Studio One, frankly, if this stuff is such High Priority stuff for you.

Studio One is actually the worst of all DAWs, it isn't good at anything, but the most 'can do a bit of everything' DAW.

[Kongru]

You probably need to dive deep into both DAWs (AL-BW) and then reflect on what your saying. That would suits you better.

Well if you say so. But I've used Live for 3 years and pretty sure that I know almost every bit of it. Live's main priority has always been "live", it's pretty obvious when they are focusing on push rather than fixing their sluggish UI framework, adding piano roll features and so on.

They are adding piano roll features in 11?

[ReleaseCandidate]

You probably need to dive deep into both DAWs (AL-BW) and then reflect on what your saying. That would suits you better.

Well if you say so. But I've used Live for 3 years and pretty sure that I know almost every bit of it. Live's main priority has always been "live", it's pretty obvious when they are focusing on push rather than fixing their sluggish UI framework, adding piano roll features and so on.

They are adding piano roll features in 11?

The main new features are all for MIDI (too). Comping také lanes (MIDI too!), the new probability features, scale highlighting and folding.

[SLiC]

I selfishly voted it should go in a different direction as I have both!

[tomsa]

Honestly, Bitwig is doing great work. It's where I'm happiest working now. The only things I would really like to see implemented specifically are something like ProTools "Solo Safe" mode for effects tracks, and comping that's similar to Logic or ProTools. I've been doing vocal comping in Bitwig just fine as it is now with Layered Editing Mode in the Detail Editor Panel. It isn't perfect, but it still gets the job done for me. I also think it might be pretty sweet for Bitwig to become officially supported by Slate for its Raven desks- with the touchscreen stuff that Bitwig has already put in place, it seems like a natural match in terms of hardware and software. I like that Bitwig are continuing to go in a unique direction, and the software just keeps getting better. It's getting to be pretty rare for me to need to go to a different DAW for anything these days.

[Hanz Meyzer]

Well, I am quite impressed by the Ableton 11 feature set,

esp. the implementation of recording takes and MPE. Seems to me quite a bit more sophisticated than current Bitwig. So yes, I would answer here with "yes". Also Ableton had that "always recording" thing inside for some time, nothing gets lost, very nice. And the harmonical stuff directly in the pianolol, where it belongs to, IMO nice, too.

[x.iso]

well Ableton is catching up with some things like MPE, and even adding some things that Bitwig doesn't have for a change, although it's not clear if Bitwig doesn't get comping by the time Ableton 11 is released. I do think Bitwig needs comping, there are more uses to it other than just recording takes and picking best parts in streamlined way.

as for scales and such, I think Ableton has quite dumb way of implementing it, I would rather have something more sophisticated in Bitwig, like filtering based on Note FX devices that are present in the chain with ability to select target device for reference (as you could have some Note FX after instrument devices for various purposes). this is one of the first things I've sent feature request about when moving to bitwig. even better if it also reflected on virtual keyboard.

[lokanchung]

They are adding piano roll features in 11?

The main new features are all for MIDI (too). Comping také lanes (MIDI too!), the new probability features, scale highlighting and folding.

What did they do with Live 9 and 10?

Comping and scale features are something users have been crying for years, they were always on top of the list in the centercode and it took like 3 years for them to implement those features.

Even with version 11, Live has far less piano roll feature than FL Studio, less arrangement feature than S1, but it has been always quickest to fix any controlller integration issues.

[ReleaseCandidate]

They are adding piano roll features in 11?

The main new features are all for MIDI (too). Comping také lanes (MIDI too!), the new probability features, scale highlighting and folding.

What did they do with Live 9 and 10?

Comping and scale features are something users have been crying for years, they were always on top of the list in the centercode and it took like 3 years for them to implement those features.

Yes, that's why 11 is such a big thing. I too am using Live now more than Bitwig, before 11 that was the opposite.

Oh, and I forgot the better multi-track MIDI editing, that's now better than Bitwigs solution.

[pdxindy]

Well, I am quite impressed by the Ableton 11 feature set,

esp. the implementation of recording takes and MPE. Seems to me quite a bit more sophisticated than current Bitwig. So yes, I would answer here with "yes". Also Ableton had that "always recording" thing inside for some time, nothing gets lost, very nice. And the harmonical stuff directly in the pianolol, where it belongs to, IMO nice, too.

I'm also impressed by the Ableton Live feature set for v11... the Takes is well done. MPE is only pretty good cause Live still doesn't record the midi channel per note, so it is only a partial implementation at this point. I like the visual way Live 11 is showing the MPE data. That is well done.

However, MPE is still effectively far superior in Bitwig because Bitwig modulation can be per voice so every Bitwig instrument has unlimited MPE modulation possibilities. In Live, each live instrument is limited to the modulation included with that instrument.

I don't find the scale stuff of interest. I would never use it. The probability function I would have to try. It's great on my Elektron boxes, so I might well find it useful though it is easy in Live or Bitwig to do the same thing in ways that are not practical with Elektron machines.

All in all, a really solid update for Ableton.

[pdxindy]

I selfishly voted it should go in a different direction as I have both!

I voted it is good as it is... I took that to mean that Bitwig should keep going as they are going. I think most people took that is meaning it is feature complete already and voted different direction.

I toyed with the idea of trying Live 11 when it comes out... but decided against it cause Bitwig's MPE is something I wouldn't want to do without. IMO, The Grid is the best MPE synth available.

[zengel]

I don't want that ableton take example on Bitwig nor Bitwig take example on Ableton . they are both really good and they should make One unique DAW with all the best part of Bitwig and Ableton .AbleWig ! Hallelujah !

[MitchK1989]

for me I want more sequencing type modules in the grid (including a CV/GATE -> MIDI OUT for sequencing other plugins without an audio to midi hack) and comping as my main wishlist.

Maybe either some improvements to the arpeggiator or a straight up "sequencer" midi effect modelled on the RYK-M185 with ratcheting and stuff per step.

A few more filter models wouldn't hurt either (maybe alongside a more dirt focused analog emulation instrument that can be converted into a grid like polymer?)

[horizon7]

Not necessarily, BW has it's own unique strategy.
But some similar features needed:

1- comping +1.
2- note shuffle per track & per midi channel + groove pool for loading
shuffle files on the fly.
3- Audio to Midi (this is useful for pitch tracking using it for vocoder e.g.),
& chord analyzer to bounce the audio to piano roll.
4- Midi capture (sketching ideas before recording).
5-adding automation shapes & velocity, timber, points etc,, editor needs more features
such as velocity & automation points reverse value (Vertical, Horizontal) for spread, chaos,
it needs minus values.
6- entering automation points directly from it instead of adjusting from the point editor.
7- quantization for the automation points horizontally.
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