Reason 12 announced

[TribeOfHǫfuð]

Meh, meh and meh!

If there are any reasons to say anything else, I invite you to correct me. For once, it shall be a pleasure changing my stand.

[jens]

If they really keep ignoring that fundamental part of their user-base karma will get them eventually, I don't doubt that - and then you won't see me weeping at their grave either.

Not if RPP users will outnumber and/or out-$ them

You do not alienate your core userbase like that and come out in one piece - even common sense should tell them that... it simply creates too much negative energy.

[jens]

Another thing about Reason 12 that could be important:

MattiasHG wrote: 17 May 2021

Yes, we'll bump the system requirements to macOS 10.13 and above and Windows 10 and above. This was a long time coming and it really helps development when we don't have support older, quite technically different systems.

The installer won't install at all on Windows 7, Windows 10 will be required to use Reason 12.

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... &start=410

sounds good to me!

[antic604]

If they really keep ignoring that fundamental part of their user-base karma will get them eventually, I don't doubt that - and then you won't see me weeping at their grave either.

Not if RPP users will outnumber and/or out-$ them

You do not alienate your core userbase like that and come out in one piece - even common sense should tell them that... it simply creates too much negative energy.

Not sure about that.

The dynamics of discussion on e.g. ReasonTalk changed a lot since Reason 11 and RRP were released. The controvery of Reason+ quickly disappeared and it seems most people don't use the DAW itself anymore, or do it occasionally. It's just signular voices now that still criticise heavy & aggressive push of the subscription and neglecting of DAW portion.

RS' no re-sale policy with regards to REs is holding lots of people by the balls (or whatever they have between the legs), leaving them with 2 options:
- you cut your loses and leave Reason & REs completely behind,
- you swallow your pride, move to Ableton (that's where 50%+ landed) and enjoy Rack and REs there

I feel like the 2nd group is much larger. Not to mention new users + those, who had an old Reason license collecting dust somewhere and can now upgrade it to Reason 11 (with free upgrade to 12) for less than $100.

I'm sure RS' are crying on their way to the bank to deposit all the new money

[jens]

Not sure about that.

The dynamics of discussion on e.g. ReasonTalk changed a lot since Reason 11 and RRP were released. The controvery of Reason+ quickly disappeared and it seems most people don't use the DAW itself anymore, or do it occasionally. It's just signular voices now that still criticise heavy & aggressive push of the subscription and neglecting of DAW portion.

That would mean that when V11 came out the majority of existing users was willing to leave Reason as a DAW and to start using it as a modular RE host in other DAWs instead and subsequenctly indeed made this significant workflow-change. I find that impossible to believe tbh.

It's a lot more likely that the bulk of the user-base sits by patiently while the Props work on something they basically have no use for, assuming the additional income is a good thing (I thought the same). But just wait until they realize that they are no longer part of the targeted pool of potential customers. A LOT of shit is going to hit the fan. There's so many of us doing lots free advertising for them by praising Reason - on the forums, on Youtube and whereever else - once negativity and even hate start crawling in (and that will happen) their image will change - slowly, but dramatically. And for everyone working for them, it will start spoiling the fun - coders may start being a lot less productive (developing such a complex project is already difficult enough when everyone loves what you are doing), may even leave, support-quality will decrease (support is a lot harder when you have more sympathy for the complaining customer than the company you are working for), yadda yadda.

Just look at what happened to Jorgen Aase/energyXT - once he was the most popular developer here and everyone thought he could not fail - but then he made the wrong decision (alienating his core user-base by attempting to make it grow significantly) and now he is out of business

(I basically saw it coming before everybody else, because I was amongst the first three users to be allowed testing the alpha of XT2 - I watched the train getting wrecked in slow motion right from the moment when it started to leave the rails - not a pretty sight by any means)

"Never change a winning team" they say. But the team, that's us, the users.

[Greenstorm33]

What do people think the status of the upgrade path from Intro will be going forward now that they're discontinuing it? I don't need HD graphics now and don't really need or want the devices I'd get by upgrading, but I'm worried that if at some point in the future I do want HD, the upgrade from Intro to Standard is no longer going to be available.

[Lotuz2019]

What do people think the status of the upgrade path from Intro will be going forward now that they're discontinuing it? I don't need HD graphics now and don't really need or want the devices I'd get by upgrading, but I'm worried that if at some point in the future I do want HD, the upgrade from Intro to Standard is no longer going to be available.

When the time comes that you want to upgrade to the full version (12, 13 or even later), then you could search for a cheaper, older version of Reason and buy the upgrade. I wouldn't upgrade now if Reason 12 doesn't have enough to offer to justify the hefty upgrade price.

[Greenstorm33]

What do people think the status of the upgrade path from Intro will be going forward now that they're discontinuing it? I don't need HD graphics now and don't really need or want the devices I'd get by upgrading, but I'm worried that if at some point in the future I do want HD, the upgrade from Intro to Standard is no longer going to be available.

When the time comes that you want to upgrade to the full version (12, 13 or even later), then you could search for a cheaper, older version of Reason and buy the upgrade. I wouldn't upgrade now if Reason 12 doesn't have enough to offer to justify the hefty upgrade price.

That's a good point. Now that I think about it, probably by the time I'm ready to take the HD plunge I'll be able to find a copy of 12 second-hand for less than the regular intro -> standard price. I wish they'd continued to offer Intro for v12 but I think I'll stay with what I have for now.

[WatchTheGuitar]

I think this listing is just misleading (or uninformed).

I may send them an email.

Yeah, definitely. I'm basing it on the fact that Reason Studios don't offer equivalent deal, so I can't see how Pluginboutique would be able to - I doubt they'll give you Reason 11 -> 12 upgrade in September for free

Yes, they got back to me and said

When purchasing this Reason+ (Annual Subscription) licence, you will have access to Reason+ as well as Reason 12 (when it is released) for one year. The same deal is being offered directly at the Reason Studios website.

so it's basically just a one year Reason+ sub, the word 'Upgrade' being utterly superfluous as it's obvious if you subscribe that you'll have access to the latest version.

[Cochrane]

A little question about the new Combinator device in Reason 12: will it support MIDI channelization for devices in the Reason Rack plugin? For me it will be a must for upgrading (and also if they made it in 11.x I won't be disappointed at all...).
With Rewire, we had a single virtual MIDI port for every device in the rack, and now we have to add single instance of Reason rack for every part used in a project: so cluttering and destroying previous well established Rewire workflow.
Maybe someone following the official forum's thread has a clue about that...

Many thanks,
Cochrane

[Dalle]

A little question about the new Combinator device in Reason 12: will it support MIDI channelization for devices in the Reason Rack plugin? For me it will be a must for upgrading (and also if they made it in 11.x I won't be disappointed at all...).
With Rewire, we had a single virtual MIDI port for every device in the rack, and now we have to add single instance of Reason rack for every part used in a project: so cluttering and destroying previous well established Rewire workflow.
Maybe someone following the official forum's thread has a clue about that...

Many thanks,
Cochrane

This is my biggest problem with the rack plugin. Makes a lot of creative CV routing impossible.

[WatchTheGuitar]

A little question about the new Combinator device in Reason 12: will it support MIDI channelization for devices in the Reason Rack plugin? For me it will be a must for upgrading (and also if they made it in 11.x I won't be disappointed at all...).
With Rewire, we had a single virtual MIDI port for every device in the rack, and now we have to add single instance of Reason rack for every part used in a project: so cluttering and destroying previous well established Rewire workflow.
Maybe someone following the official forum's thread has a clue about that...

Many thanks,
Cochrane

you could probably use loopbackMIDI if you’re on Windows. I’d been using it to pass MIDI to and from VCV Rack until they recently updated VCV Host to get MIDI fx plugins like sequencers to work.

[imrae]

It's mad that Props/RS think RRP is a replacement for Rewire. Suggests that they were using Reason in a very unimaginative way...

[ShawnG]

It's mad that Props/RS think RRP is a replacement for Rewire. Suggests that they were using Reason in a very unimaginative way...

To turn that argument on its head, It is insane that Props thought for so many years that ReWire was a any sort of replacement for having a plugin...

Now, to be fair, regardless of my opinion of using ReWire (which is that it was hot garbage, and a really messy way of getting sounds from Reason into another DAW). I do find it weird and bizarre that they would discontinue it entirely, rather than keeping it tacked on for those who still would use it. You have my sympathy there.

[imrae]

Sure, both of these things can be true. And a better plugin would come closer to replacing Rewire. I think it is possible with VST3 to expose multiple MIDI ports.