Finally joining in on some WUP hate.

[jens]

And again - I had no idea that I have to have WUP in order to sell anything

I had overlooked to reply to this. this is different for every company - they all have their individuals apporach and if that is something that is relevant to you and even could affect a potential purchase,
you should get yourself informed before making that purchase - and that goes for every vendor.

And if I quickly google "waves license transfer" this page is the topmost result:

https://www.waves.com/support/transfer-of-ownership

In order to transfer the ownership of your Waves software or hardware products to another Waves account, follow these guidelines. Please allow up to 3 business days for processing.
Steps for software

1. Make sure that each license being transferred has been updated to version 9 or higher in your Waves Account and that it's covered by the Waves Update Plan.

It says that right there as part of step one in clear and plain words. So if this concearn you and you nonetheless had no idea you have to blame yourself, not Waves.

[0degree]

And again - I had no idea that I have to have WUP in order to sell anything

I had overlooked to reply to this. this is different for every company - they all have their individuals apporach and if that is something that is relevant to you and even could affect a potential purchase,
you should get yourself informed before making that purchase - and that goes for every vendor.

And if I quickly google "waves license transfer" this page is the topmost result:

https://www.waves.com/support/transfer-of-ownership

In order to transfer the ownership of your Waves software or hardware products to another Waves account, follow these guidelines. Please allow up to 3 business days for processing.
Steps for software

1. Make sure that each license being transferred has been updated to version 9 or higher in your Waves Account and that it's covered by the Waves Update Plan.

It says that right there as part of step one in clear and plain words. So if this concearn you and you nonetheless had no idea you have to blame yourself, not Waves.

Sorry, but nobody sane will check every possible fine printed wording and how WUP works etc. At the time of the first purchase I just trusted companies and was 100% sure I can do whatever I with with the plugin it later on, without WUPs, multiple versions of the plugins all the misery involved. If I knew how it works I'd never buy into it or greatly limit amount of plugins to only really essential ones and spend money elsewhere. So yeah, I blame myself for trusting them

And once again - really good plugins (not all of them of course) and horrible business model

[imrae]

If that does however NOT apply to you, then WUP may seems like a serious showstopper to you. But in that case that's good too, as it makes it easier for you to stay away from them.

The Waves apologist mental gymnastics are getting more impressive every year

[pixel85]

And again - I had no idea that I have to have WUP in order to sell anything

I had overlooked to reply to this. this is different for every company - they all have their individuals apporach and if that is something that is relevant to you and even could affect a potential purchase,
you should get yourself informed before making that purchase - and that goes for every vendor.

And if I quickly google "waves license transfer" this page is the topmost result:

https://www.waves.com/support/transfer-of-ownership

In order to transfer the ownership of your Waves software or hardware products to another Waves account, follow these guidelines. Please allow up to 3 business days for processing.
Steps for software

1. Make sure that each license being transferred has been updated to version 9 or higher in your Waves Account and that it's covered by the Waves Update Plan.

It says that right there as part of step one in clear and plain words. So if this concearn you and you nonetheless had no idea you have to blame yourself, not Waves.

Sorry, but nobody sane will check every possible fine printed wording and how WUP works etc.

Oh, so only insane people are checking what they're buying? Like for real man, you're complaining but when you pay for something that you don't know what it is (or don't fully understand), then it's your fault. Is it unfair? One may say yes but this is the world we are living in.
It's not like a topic about WUP was never mentioned anywhere before. You have so many topics on the internet where people are talking about WUP, its pros and cons. No need to read a 100-page long agreement document.
Be patient next time and try to find as much info as you can. Or stay impatient and 'pay twice'. The same rule applies to everything: rent, bills, other contracts - those who don't want to spend time reading an agreement (even if it has to take one full day), are paying with their money. You have to decide what's better: sacrificing a bit of your time or your money.

[0degree]

Oh, so only insane people are checking what they're buying? Like for real man, you're complaining but when you pay for something that you don't know what it is (or don't fully understand), then it's your fault. Is it unfair? One may say yes but this is the world we are living in.
It's not like a topic about WUP was never mentioned anywhere before. You have so many topics on the internet where people are talking about WUP, its pros and cons. No need to read a 100-page long agreement document.
Be patient next time and try to find as much info as you can. Or stay impatient and 'pay twice'. The same rule applies to everything: rent, bills, other contracts - those who don't want to spend time reading an agreement (even if it has to take one full day), are paying with their money. You have to decide what's better: sacrificing a bit of your time or your money.

Haha, that's funny - at the time I had no idea that WUP actually exists because I had different experience with other devs but hey I've learnt from my mistake

[audiosabre]

Yeah I’ll say it again til the end of time; screw WUP!

As an FL Studio user, I’ve got 15 years worth of free updates and development, which is absolutely staggering considering how much has been added and the man hours involved. One of the many reasons I’m a staunchly loyal supporter. In contrast, Waves wanna charge me $250 for some lazy implementation of a resizable GUI of otherwise abandoned product. The cheek of these people.

The juxtaposition is palpable. Waves are shooting themselves in the foot, PR wise. Save for a minority of Stockholm-syndrome nut jobs who consistently defend their unscrupulous behaviour.

[ghettosynth]

That's why the WUP gives me nothing because I mostly have singles, so I'd have to upgrade to bundle, then upgrade to another bundle, then WUP and WUP all over again...

Which is why I pointed out that they often offer discounted upgrades to bundles. All the plugins contained in the bundle then have WUP for another years, which already includes the plugins you already owned and which are part of this bundle.

This works great, to a point. This pretty much why I have so many Waves plugins now. The only way up really is Mercury and I'm not sure if I want to take the plunge because it mostly means getting all of those signature plugins that I will never use.

The bundle that I keep updated, and that's only because they regularly release new plugins, is Abbey Roads. I don't always necessarily want the new plugin, but generally it's worth it to just buy it on discount and get new WUP for a year.

I'm not generally complaining about WUP, I view Waves plugins as NFR and buy them that way. What I find annoying is that 1) they don't update you to the latest version that you are eligible for automatically, 2) that they don't install whatever version you have with their main application, and 3) that their updates are generally of low value and seem, more egregiously than other vendors, designed to extract money from you just to keep using their plugins in a reasonably normal fashion.

[jens]

I think it's probably about time to leave those plugins as they are and move on to some other companies. It's too bad because I really like them

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. You actually like them but have to stop using them because you can't sell them without paying for WUP.

[jens]

Haha, that's funny - at the time I had no idea that WUP actually exists because I had different experience with other devs but hey I've learnt from my mistake

So basically you blame Waves because you naively believed that every vendor would allow free license transfer and then had to find out that this is not the case.

[plexuss]

I'm not generally complaining about WUP, I view Waves plugins as NFR and buy them that way. What I find annoying is that 1) they don't update you to the latest version that you are eligible for automatically, 2) that they don't install whatever version you have with their main application, and 3) that their updates are generally of low value and seem, more egregiously than other vendors, designed to extract money from you just to keep using their plugins in a reasonably normal fashion.

4) The last update breaks all Waves plugins for me, therefore I can't updated if I wanted to. I am on a mac without Metal video support and all V12 require Metal. It's not clear why all Waves plugins need Metal since there are no features that other plugins with similar features have. In effect (pun intended), they've alienated all their customers without video Metal support. A really bizzare business decision. For me it's move me away from Waves. I will use what I have and that's it. Waves is a dead company to me moving forward even if/when I get Metal support. They can't be trusted.

And all that is outside of the WUP scam, which I fully agree with you guys on. ... Waves bye bye!

[jens]

What kind of Mac doesn't have Metal?

[elxsound]

Haha, that's funny - at the time I had no idea that WUP actually exists because I had different experience with other devs but hey I've learnt from my mistake

So basically you blame Waves because you naively believed that every vendor would allow free license transfer and then had to find out that this is not the case.

Give them brake Jens. He's not saying he wasn't naive in this, but that's sort of the point. There is an expectation that you're paying for something upfront, and this is one of the things that if you don't read properly you'll get a surprise.

I can't tell if they've updated their wording, but before it wasn't upfront that WUP was based on that full retail price even though we all know the plugins sell for $29 (or less). So in this exact scenario, paying for WUP can cost more than what the plugin was bought for in the first place.

I think it's all very predatory.

[jens]

I don't. But perhaps it would be wiser for them to simply sell during the sales NFR licenses and make that clear for everyone.

For me it's a non-issue though because it would never come to me try selling a plugin that I purchased for less than 30$. I bought it, I use(d) it, I'll keep it. Even if I stopped using it in the meantime, it makes loading older projects a lot less painful.

And frankly: installing&registering Waves current (V10-V12) plus V9 on a new machine is still a lot less hassle than installing and registering the same number of plugins from one or two handful of indie-developers. (believe me: I have them all, so I know what I am talking about ).

So from my personal perspective, I think I should buy and use more Waves stuff and less indie stuff.
(But then of course I am very inclinded to support those vendors too, so...)

[ramseysounds]

Oh look. Yet another waves WUP hating thread. I honestly think that there are no new topics to talk about. It’s the same regurgitated nonsense week after week ad nauseum. Just use the search function and add to the already saturated WUP topics

Oh look another ramseysounds forum police reply. Why don't you use the search function, find one of the many other topics you have replied to and carry on your whinging ad nauseam over there

this used to be an informative educational forum. Now its just me me me want want want. My opinion is just as valid as yours. So forgive me if I laugh inwardly and yawn loudly from the boredom

[Ploki]

I still find it ironic that you always post in defence of Waves/PA/whatever, then you came into Timeless3 thread, not even a -general- fabfilter thread, a new plugin launch thread, just to say this:

Ive never been tempted to buy anything from FF. Very pricey in my opinion and I have more than enough alternatives that do just as good a job for a fraction of the cost

On the other hand you moan about people who open a venting thread about what's pretty universally accepted as dodgy practices...
Is the irony of this really lost on you?