Which M1 Macbook for Bitwig?

[pdxindy]

You can pick the direction of scrolling in the system preferences...

The big advantage with the Pilot Moon solution is that it lets you control the mouse scrolling and the trackpad scrolling independently.

Yeah, they are tied together in system preferences. I have zero interest in controlling them independently.

I'll come clean. I got that information just now from the software's author. When I first got my Mac, I didn't even bother to investigate the system preferences, I just needed an instant solution and it was free. I too have never used a trackpad

[machinesworking]

The biggest difference that is important is the passive cooling on Air vs. fans in Pro 13'' and potential throtting.
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If you do have M1 Air already, is throttling a real issue if you're not running heavy sessions (I don't)?

I'm debating it myself. I think in the bigger picture the throttling could be controlled, there's a thermal pad solution that ties the cooling vents directly to the back of the case, people report maybe a 5% drop in performance verses the 20% you see in these stress tests. In practical terms the MacBook Pro is a smarter choice. Actually having fans is a better idea, not having to break a warranty to get the extra 20% is smarter.


The thing is though, fanless! That's just too cool, I'm also not convinced yet that Apple isn't going to be dropping the touch bar at some time, so the idea of a part of the computer depreciating 5 years from now is there in the back of my head. The other pro for the Air is maybe in two years you want more power and another laptop or mini? The Air stands out in being useful even after upgrading.

Last thing to think about, the ssd is not user replaceable, whatever size you get you're stuck with. I plan on getting at least the 2TB, and if I can somehow justify it, the 4TB, so under the pain of the cost of the upgrade, it's good to think about what the actual cost of the laptop will be. Upgrades to 16GB and at least 1TB in the SSD are bar minimums for what we do IMO. Looking at the combines cost of the whole package is a good idea.


Here's the mod explained:

[quincy]

Last thing to think about, the ssd is not user replaceable, whatever size you get you're stuck with. I plan on getting at least the 2TB, and if I can somehow justify it, the 4TB, so under the pain of the cost of the upgrade, it's good to think about what the actual cost of the laptop will be. Upgrades to 16GB and at least 1TB in the SSD are bar minimums for what we do IMO. Looking at the combines cost of the whole package is a good idea.

On this point about disk space - nobody is going to argue that Apple charge a crazy premium for the SSD but does everybody really need so much space? Obviously I don't know your specific usage but if you're mainly using VST synths and maybe some drum one-shots and NOT using loads of multi-GB sampled libraries or whatever then you can get away with a lot less space. If you need storage for samples that aren't going to get disk-streamed then you could just buy a much cheaper external drive to add some space. External drive space is dirt cheap these days.

I say this, of course, in the knowledge that some producers have insanely large sample libraries but let's be honest here - many people have far more sample packages and other crap than they ever need or use. I'm thinking that a bit of housekeeping and a more modest approach to sample curation might save some of us a lot of money!

I have 256GB drive on my MBP I've had from 2014 and I get on fine, but admittedly I'm just a hobbyist with the music production. I have occasionally had to clear out some space but I would say the limited 8GB of RAM has caused me more issues than lack of disk space. I have regularly regretted not buying 16GB RAM when I had the chance - I won't make that mistake with my new M1 Mac!

Just some food for thought.

[machinesworking]

On this point about disk space - nobody is going to argue that Apple charge a crazy premium for the SSD but does everybody really need so much space? Obviously I don't know your specific usage but if you're mainly using VST synths and maybe some drum one-shots and NOT using loads of multi-GB sampled libraries or whatever then you can get away with a lot less space. If you need storage for samples that aren't going to get disk-streamed then you could just buy a much cheaper external drive to add some space. External drive space is dirt cheap these days.

I say this, of course, in the knowledge that some producers have insanely large sample libraries but let's be honest here - many people have far more sample packages and other crap than they ever need or use. I'm thinking that a bit of housekeeping and a more modest approach to sample curation might save some of us a lot of money!

I have 256GB drive on my MBP I've had from 2014 and I get on fine, but admittedly I'm just a hobbyist with the music production. I have occasionally had to clear out some space but I would say the limited 8GB of RAM has caused me more issues than lack of disk space. I have regularly regretted not buying 16GB RAM when I had the chance - I won't make that mistake with my new M1 Mac!

Just some food for thought.

Yeah it's different users and their needs for sure with this. I don't just use Bitwig, and honestly likely bitwig is the least of my worries here. On the desktop I have 1.3TB of sample libraries on the main streaming drive, My plug ins folder itself is 29GB, My song and other sample patch libraries spread across two 1TB drives is 875Gb, My boot drive is 480GB. Didn't mention a mixed media drive with various samples and audio files loops etc. with another 1.2TB on it.
If I can figure a way to afford it I'm getting the largest drive they make for the next 16" macbook pros that come out with Apple silicon, right now I attach three external drives to my laptop and use the desktop to stream samples from with VEP, or just use the desktop. I can see a future where I only use the desktop and VEP for ridiculously big orchestral projects, where 95% of the time the laptop is more than good enough.

There's a distinct possibility that even when the next line up comes out I'm going to have to go for the predicted 14" instead of the 16" to afford 32GB+ of RAM and a 4TB internal drive.

[antic604]

Thanks for the discussion @everyone. Not surprised with 50/50 votes, because they're so similar and the price difference hardly justifies the benefits of the Pro 13''

Regarding disc size, I think I'll be OK with just 256GB. Currently I've 4 DAWs installed on my old SurfacePro 4 that has an SSD of that size and I still have like 150GB of free space. And I have external SSD if I really need more.

But main thing for me is RAM. Most of my projects were created when I only had 8GB and I rarely use audio samples anyway, so on that alone I'd think I would be fine. But I'm still concerned about potential heavy 'paging' and an excessive wear it can cause for the M1 SSD. Most info I read about it was suggesting to not worry about, but every one of them suggested to err on the side of caution and get the 16GB models

[pc999]

I must say I learned to really value the absolute silence, over any fan noise. From what reviewers say, the MBP DOES have a bit of noise, low but yet noticiable, given the diferences between both I take silence.

(I didnt cast a vote btw)

[machinesworking]

But main thing for me is RAM. Most of my projects were created when I only had 8GB and I rarely use audio samples anyway, so on that alone I'd think I would be fine. But I'm still concerned about potential heavy 'paging' and an excessive wear it can cause for the M1 SSD. Most info I read about it was suggesting to not worry about, but every one of them suggested to err on the side of caution and get the 16GB models

16GB should be the minimum RAM, but the SSD size does directly affect the lifespan of the SSD, as explained in this video: (well worth watching considering the hype behind this)

[Fleer]

If you’ve got 16GB of RAM in your M1, there won’t be much “memory swapping” with your SSD, so 256GB will be more than adequate, provided you use your external drives for samples and projects.

[machinesworking]

If you’ve got 16GB of RAM in your M1, there won’t be much “memory swapping” with your SSD, so 256GB will be more than adequate, provided you use your external drives for samples and projects.

IMO 256 is always too little and 16GB is a bare minimum. If you watch the video I posted there's a direct connection between drive size and drive lifespan, i.e. a 256 drive will last half as long if there's swapping than a 512. So IMO spending the money on a 1TB if you plan on living with the laptop for 5+ years is a great idea.

[liquidsound]

To get an M1 is not a good idea. I would just wait for the M1X
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/m1x-mac-3801943/

[Hanz Meyzer]

Yup, or wait a year, until the banana has matured at the customer.

[liquidsound]

Yup, or wait a year, until the banana has matured at the customer.

Q4 2021, still greenish banana

[machinesworking]

To get an M1 is not a good idea. I would just wait for the M1X
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/m1x-mac-3801943/

this article is old in terms of random speculation etc.

The next Mac update is expected in June at WWDC. That update is likely to feature either the M1X or M2 (or both).

I'm making no predictions, the chip shortage kind messes it all up. I've waited this long so I'll wait to see if I can afford the cost difference. The current models would do me, but I like to keep laptops forever, typing on a 2012 I bought in 2013.

[Fleer]

If you’ve got 16GB of RAM in your M1, there won’t be much “memory swapping” with your SSD, so 256GB will be more than adequate, provided you use your external drives for samples and projects.

IMO 256 is always too little and 16GB is a bare minimum. If you watch the video I posted there's a direct connection between drive size and drive lifespan, i.e. a 256 drive will last half as long if there's swapping than a 512. So IMO spending the money on a 1TB if you plan on living with the laptop for 5+ years is a great idea.

Things are different with an M1 iMac, 16GB of RAM, internal 256GB SSD plus a couple of external 1TB NVMe drives. And there’s little swapping under MacOS 11.4 with 16GB of RAM. For portable use, I’ll be getting an M1X or M2 MacBook Pro with 32GB of RAM and 4TB SSD next.

[machinesworking]

If you’ve got 16GB of RAM in your M1, there won’t be much “memory swapping” with your SSD, so 256GB will be more than adequate, provided you use your external drives for samples and projects.

IMO 256 is always too little and 16GB is a bare minimum. If you watch the video I posted there's a direct connection between drive size and drive lifespan, i.e. a 256 drive will last half as long if there's swapping than a 512. So IMO spending the money on a 1TB if you plan on living with the laptop for 5+ years is a great idea.

Things are different with an M1 iMac, 16GB of RAM, internal 256GB SSD plus a couple of external 1TB NVMe drives. And there’s little swapping with 16GB of RAM. I’ll be getting an M1X or M2 MacBook Pro with 32GB of RAM and 4TB SSD next.

There's always swapping, unless Monterey changes something that's always been a thing with OS's, there's always virtual memory being used, and unless you do some Terminal level stuff, it's going to happen on your boot drive. I got curious about the 'issue' of writes to the drive in M1 Macs that had people worried about the irreplaceable drives, and the guy in the video above is an ex engineer who explains the whole thing very well.